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I like the RP2040

dgroshev.com

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Re: I like the RP2040

#61

Post by vitiral »

t43562 wrote: post #48
IshKebab wrote: post #36

TL;DR: he likes it because there's only one version available, whereas most microcontrollers have many more than one variant. This seems like a very weak argument. IMO (just based on the specs; haven't actually used it), the main reason to use this is for the PIO stuff. That's a very niche use case though.

...because that means there's a lot of support and documentation for that 1 variant and lots of people have solved problems and written about it, This is like the iPhone strategy against Nokia. When I worked at Nokia it produced many variant phones - each with a little more ram or a bit less or a better screen or a different chipset. This was because they thought that people bought on price and wanted to have a produ…

... and because they designed the chip to be a jack of all trades, which he really likes.

Re: I like the RP2040

#62

Post by HyulianGrader »

freedomben wrote: post #34
HyulianGrader wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in their right mind is updating a bootloader in the field OTA, let alone one inaccessible on a mountain top.

I don't disagree, but it leads to the question from the security guy: how do you fix CVEs in the bootloader after it's shipped (aka in the field)?

If you anticipate the need to update the bootloader, you would use a multistage bootloader approach where the first is never altered (as the bootloader should never be altered) and its main function is to select which updatable second stage bootloader to load from multiple options (multiple so that even if one is interrupted mid-update by the application, there is a valid fallback).

My gut says if you're worried about this in the bootloader, it might be doing too much.

Re: I like the RP2040

#63

Post by AlotOfReading »

freedomben wrote: post #34
HyulianGrader wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody in their right mind is updating a bootloader in the field OTA, let alone one inaccessible on a mountain top.

I don't disagree, but it leads to the question from the security guy: how do you fix CVEs in the bootloader after it's shipped (aka in the field)?

You don't.

When I actually have these conversations with security guys, it's because they've either missed their window on contributing to part selection (in one case because that team hadn't been hired yet!) or no one consulted them in the first place. In both cases the solution is to write some guidelines and get the EEs to use them during part selection in the future.

Re: I like the RP2040

#64

Post by mkj »

cockings wrote: post #4

> The RP2040 is impossible to brick. It comes with a read-only bootloader that can either mount as a USB mass storage device (firmware updates can just be copypasted to the "storage device"), or use its own simple USB protocol. Can anyone explain what this means? How is it both read-only and updateable? If the latter, how is it unbrickable?

Unbrickable for the RP2040 itself, but most SPI flash chips (including ones on the RP Pico) have permanently lockable regions. You can lock them open though.

Re: I like the RP2040

#65

Post by cryptonector »

cockings wrote: post #4

> The RP2040 is impossible to brick. It comes with a read-only bootloader that can either mount as a USB mass storage device (firmware updates can just be copypasted to the "storage device"), or use its own simple USB protocol. Can anyone explain what this means? How is it both read-only and updateable? If the latter, how is it unbrickable?

I think it's saying that firmware updates are not persistent. You have to apply them every time at boot time. So if it boots once, it will boot every time. If you ever get bad firmware, you just rollback or roll further forward in your boot media.

Re: I like the RP2040

#66

Post by bangaladore »

jcalvinowens wrote: post #44

The lack of built-in flash kills it for me. STM32 M3s with comparable throughput are cheaper and don't require an external flash chip (example: STM32F103C8T6 for $1.20 from jlc). I love the generic PIO though, I really hope other manufacturers pick up on that.

That chip has over 10x less RAM and only 60k flash. It has only one core and that core is clocked at half the speeds compared to both the RP2040 cores.

And it cost six bucks from US distributors. I can buy a single RP2040 chip from Digikey for 70 cents. Even if you add another dollar for flash memory, you are still far better off.

Re: I like the RP2040

#67

Post by metadat »

If this RPi main chip costs $0.70, why does the finished product currently cost $93.00 (RPi 5)? They're quite expensive nowadays, I miss when you could purchase them for ~$30.00.

Meanwhile, Expressif chips are literally everywhere and becoming ever more ubiquitous.

Edit: Thanks friends for the correction. It is cool you can still buy an RPi Pico for $13.00 :)

Re: I like the RP2040

#68

Post by smcameron »

metadat wrote: post #67

If this RPi main chip costs $0.70, why does the finished product currently cost $93.00 (RPi 5)? They're quite expensive nowadays, I miss when you could purchase them for ~$30.00. Meanwhile, Expressif chips are literally everywhere and becoming ever more ubiquitous. Edit: Thanks friends for the correction. It is cool you can still buy an RPi Pico for $13.00 :)

The RP2040 is not what the RPi 5 uses.

Re: I like the RP2040

#69

Post by wheybags »

metadat wrote: post #67

If this RPi main chip costs $0.70, why does the finished product currently cost $93.00 (RPi 5)? They're quite expensive nowadays, I miss when you could purchase them for ~$30.00. Meanwhile, Expressif chips are literally everywhere and becoming ever more ubiquitous. Edit: Thanks friends for the correction. It is cool you can still buy an RPi Pico for $13.00 :)

Because it's not the same chip? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RP2040 read the the specs and it's clear that is not the main chip in an rpi 5

Re: I like the RP2040

#70

Post by j_leboulanger »

metadat wrote: post #67

If this RPi main chip costs $0.70, why does the finished product currently cost $93.00 (RPi 5)? They're quite expensive nowadays, I miss when you could purchase them for ~$30.00. Meanwhile, Expressif chips are literally everywhere and becoming ever more ubiquitous. Edit: Thanks friends for the correction. It is cool you can still buy an RPi Pico for $13.00 :)

Because the RP2040 is not the main controller of the RPi.

It's a micro controller, on which the Raspberry Pi Pico is based, at $4

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