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The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

wired.com

61–70 of 129 posts

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#61
The Wired article clearly paints Rush as someone who was irresponsible and cavalier about even the basics of good engineering before testing a complex thing with real human lives that trusted him too much.

In the essence of that argument at least, they're right. His using a prototype he knew to be a failure to then explore the ocean with customers aboard, under the same conditions as those that caused its test failure, is criminally negligent.

However, pointing to all sorts of mistakes and gambles small or large as narratives towards a full blown condemnation of extremely dangerous efforts is mistaken I think:

In the world of exploring extremely harsh environments, some heavy risk is inevitable even if you do everything you know of right. In such contexts, something could go catastrophically wrong just as easily as it could all end successfully and a narrative will be constructed for why either was the case even if either outcome was interchangeably plausible..

Pushing immediate blame on someone for something going wrong in an inherently risky activity is to fall into this above narrative trap. It also implies the idea that people who do dangerous but potentially worthy things are wrong for doing so because they didn't have perfect foresight.

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#62
One interesting thing about this saga is we learned just how much of a badass James Cameron is.

James Cameron put together the team that designed the DeepSea Challenger, which he took to the bottom of the Mariana Trench, far deeper than Titanic. One interesting tidbid (IIRC) is that they spent 3 years just designing the pressure vessel in software before they ever built anything, so precise the engineering had to be. And even then they did have some system failures on that dive but nothing catastrophic.

OceanGate was an exercise in hubris from people who didn't know better and didn't want to know better. It was pure ego from the uninformed. I personally found the general reaction to be fascinating too: it's like a whole bunch of people discovered class awareness and solidarity.

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#63
post #4

He already got punished by life, no need to blame him posthumous. He is like one of the inventors of the parachute (Franz Karl Reichelt), still wanted to try because he believed in it. Unfortunately believing is not enough when it comes to reliability. Effort was good though, as apparently it worked at some point. > This submersible design, later renamed Titan, eventually made it down to the Titanic in 2021. It even…

> He already got punished by life, no need to blame him posthumous.

There absolutely is.

Hubris, stupidity, learning from the mistakes of others.

Blaming him is a giant, flashing sign.

DON'T BE THAT GUY

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stockton Rush is not eligible for Darwin award because he had two children. The 19-year old son is eligible, though he won’t win the award because he was peer-pressured by his dad.

I wanted to ask if the Darwin Award is also possible if you manage to get yourself and your child killed but the father had another daughter which is still alive

I was mistaken, I just rechecked the rules and apparently having an offspring no longer disqualifies a candidate since the offspring only inherits 50% of the nominee’s genes.

So everyone in the sub are eligible now.

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#65

David Lochridge, who oversaw marine operations at the company and who needed to sign off on the transfer, became convinced that Titan was unsafe. In January 2018, Lochridge sent Rush a quality-control inspection report detailing 27 issues with the vehicle, from questionable O-ring seals on the domes and missing bolts to flammable materials and more concerns about its carbon-fiber hull. Rush fired him the next day. (A…

The word "found" implies judicial discovery of truth through due process. This was a settlement. Nobody was found to be at fault, the information was highly dangerous and therefore valuable, if you want to eliminate the market of buying silence reform due process protections so they cannot be subverted by so called plea "deals" and so called settlement "agreements".

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure SpaceX already knows the rockets won't make it back intact, but they still launch anyway (despite the losses). I'm certain they don't have this attitude with manned trips.

Their attitude for crewed flights is to put pictures of the astronauts on every work order generated for the mission.

Is this true? I googled and couldn't find it. I'd really like to read about this.

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#67

Deep-sea experts criticized OceanGate’s choices, from Titan’s carbon-fiber construction to Rush’s [CEO] public disdain for industry regulations, which he believed stifled innovation Seems a remarkably similar sentiment to the e/acc types currently loudly influencing tech and business discourse on various media. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_accelerationism

Wouldn't the e/acc analysis here be that if people, or our entire species, has to die in the name of progress then that's a cost we should be willing to bear?

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#69
As an product designer / inventor, I know that feeling well... that point when so many prototypes have failed, but you feel you are so close. You feel you've run out of time and that it will be too expensive to test another one, so you convince yourself to go into production with what *should* work, it has to right?!?... (well it almost never does, and it's 100% not worth the stress).

But to put your own life and others at risk making that move... whoooooooweeeeee, that's fully into batshit crazy land.

Re: The Titan Submersible Disaster. The Inside Story Is More Disturbing

#70
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arguably we're seeing bad engineering by OpenAI leading to their superalignment team quitting and raise the alarm.

No. Re-wind the clock: - A google engineer says "google has AGI"... this leaks and is dismissed. - MS writes a paper that says GPT has hints of AGI. - OpenAI signs deal with MS saying they can have everything OpenAI does till they hit AGI. That last one. Thats not a bet you make if you think AGI is a decade away. Its a bet you make if you think your close. OpenAI thought that they were close. They fell for the classi…

> They left because there is no THERE, there..

They left because they lost the power struggle.

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