XINU is another simple teaching system.
I like os161 from ops-class dot org too (Harvard course)
Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
61–70 of 100 posts
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
GNU/Hurd it's interesting. It replicates Unix, but it gives far more power to the user.
Interesting are systems like Xerox PARC Workstations (Mesa, Cedar, Smalltalk, Interlisp-D), ETHZ Oberon, Inferno, Apollo/Domain, Tru64, QNX.
QNX it's another Unix in the end any the Photon GUI it's nothing odd to any KDE/Windows 2000 user.
Smalltalk has issues on exporting your software to be run under a standalone way.
On Interlisp, there's Mezzano, a Common Lisp OS, but it needs some tweaks and optimizations.
Oberon UI wise it's the same as Acme under p9/9front/p9port. On Inferno, 9front and Go superseded it in some ideas.
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
i admit to not being very familiar with the current version of os/360; can you elaborate? btw, when you say 'z/OS (descendant of System/370)', i think you are confusing hardware and software; system/370 was the hardware (obsolete), os/360 the software (sadly, not obsolete; later renamed os/370, mvs, and z/os in a series of increasingly desperate attempts to escape its reputation) generally the functional/imperative c…
Ah, sorry for the inaccuracies. I mean MVS as a predecessor of z/OS, of course. What I mean by functional core/imperative shell is similar to what you mean by (the "kernel" is the "imperative shell" and the "userspace" is the "functional core"): "for the most part operating systems design is an exercise in delegating as much as possible of those 'executive decisions' to userspace. 'mechanism, not policy' is the mantr…
like what?
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#64Plan9 was/is used at a university is Spain for teaching
Bracing myself for the next generation of self-important monochrome tech ‘zines coming out of Spain
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
GNU/Hurd it's interesting. It replicates Unix, but it gives far more power to the user.
Interesting are systems like Xerox PARC Workstations (Mesa, Cedar, Smalltalk, Interlisp-D), ETHZ Oberon, Inferno, Apollo/Domain, Tru64, QNX.
Do not forget Genode.
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah, sorry for the inaccuracies. I mean MVS as a predecessor of z/OS, of course. What I mean by functional core/imperative shell is similar to what you mean by (the "kernel" is the "imperative shell" and the "userspace" is the "functional core"): "for the most part operating systems design is an exercise in delegating as much as possible of those 'executive decisions' to userspace. 'mechanism, not policy' is the mantr…
like what?
For example, on z/OS, the whole disk storage subsystem (SMS, but there is more) is separate from the MVS (kernel). Security is also externalized in RACF server (in fact there are alternate products from non-IBM vendors). You can run multiple TCP/IP stacks, which are also running in their own address spaces. Sysplex serialization has its own address space.
All the address spaces involved in the operating system are coordinated through SVC or PC routines, which are like system calls, and scheduling of SRBs, which are kinda like kernel threads. I am not sure (although I am not aware of latest developments) if in Linux one can define a custom system call, like you can on z/OS. Or if you can schedule your own kernel thread from user space.
You seem to know about MVS, yet we probably disagree on whether it is to be called a microkernel or not. I am not an OS expert, and I never did kernel-level programming for Linux or z/OS. But I did read Lister's Fundamentals of Operating Systems long time ago, and that book is somewhat based on what MVS (the actual kernel of z/OS) does. It was written before the whole microkernel debate, which AFAICT might be just an artifact of enormous variety and complexity of x86 hardware.
So I would like to hear, in your opinion, what should have been different in MVS (or z/OS) for you to consider it a microkernel?
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#67I have ways wanted to understand the Windows NT kernel -- maybe the earlier versions as they are simpler. I heard the first version is close to VMS. Is it true? Is there any material on VMS? OpenVMS is open sourced but the version is too high.
Windows Internals book series, old MSTech Journal and DDJ issues, VMS manuals on digital archives.
Thanks, I have a book about win32 programming, published 25 years ago but seems to be still relevant. I'll read the internals after I get some ideas about user space programming first.
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#68I have ways wanted to understand the Windows NT kernel -- maybe the earlier versions as they are simpler. I heard the first version is close to VMS. Is it true? Is there any material on VMS? OpenVMS is open sourced but the version is too high.
For a good look at the development of the NT kernel, read the book show stopper from 1996. It is correct that Dave Cutler did lead a number of projects inside DEC including projects related to VMS, the only inheritance the Microsoft New Technology kernel received from VMS was spiritual at the design and architecture levels. Dave was already in the process of a major overhaul or successor to VMS when his team was show…
I am reading the book, now that you mentioned. I only reach the part when David was hired by Microsoft though. Actually I'm super interested in his earlier works in Dupont and DEC as they paved the way.
I took him as an inspiration. His “What I really wanted to do was work on computers, not apply them to problems.” rings so true with me, and he as a natural leader also makes me look up to him.
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
For a good look at the development of the NT kernel, read the book show stopper from 1996. It is correct that Dave Cutler did lead a number of projects inside DEC including projects related to VMS, the only inheritance the Microsoft New Technology kernel received from VMS was spiritual at the design and architecture levels. Dave was already in the process of a major overhaul or successor to VMS when his team was show…
I am reading the book, now that you mentioned. I only reach the part when David was hired by Microsoft though. Actually I'm super interested in his earlier works in Dupont and DEC as they paved the way. I took him as an inspiration. His “What I really wanted to do was work on computers, not apply them to problems.” rings so true with me, and he as a natural leader also makes me look up to him.
"Work on computers, not apply them to problems" feels like the kind of mentality that gets a lot of people into trouble :)
Re: Xv6, a simple Unix-like teaching operating system
#70Why Unix v6? Why teach with a 50 years old design? I feel to teach the fundamentals of an operating system, i.e. scheduling, IPC, address space management, a microkernel design would be better.
That is how we end with students always cloning UNIX on their projects, instead of going alternative roots like Redox or SerenityOS.
The irony here is that both SerenityOS and Redox are UNIX-like. Of course in their design, they're not purely like most other UNIXen, but they also don't stray away too far.