> Ladybird now targets Linux and macOS. The SerenityOS target is dropped. Why dropping the SerenityOS target?? Does this mean that SerenityOS's Ladybird will need to continually pull patches from the new Ladybird project in order to keep development? Also: is it really a fork if the new project gets to keep the name "Ladybird"? Will SerenityOS's browser need to be renamed, or there will be two diverging Ladybird proj…
my understanding is that serenity will focus less on the web browser in the first place. it might just go back to being a simple html viewer with rudimentary js support?
my hope is that they take this as an opportunity to come up with a purpose built "web" stack for serenity? use it as an excuse to reinvent the web and "fix" the mistakes that were made? maybe by actually Putting Scheme In The Browser rather than js?
I feel like this should've been done a while ago. Community was quite split by two projects and it felt like SerenityOS was dragging Ladybird development down, both from sponsor and developer point of view.
I'm glad Andreas had committed to this, for the best to both projects.
I might sound jaded, but I'd be more excited for a Chromium fork that focuses on hackability instead of a brand new browser that'll take somewhere between years to ∞ to be even remotely useful. I get why that'd be less fun to work on though.
There are plenty of Chromium forks, you can go use those. Or just make your own.
The web is eating everything. Maybe every app could be structured as if it's a web app or worker service to do everything people expect while being minimal?
It's interesting that the OS layer could be even thinner than SerenityOS. With 'Local first' capabilities and the expanding role of web technologies, this is not only possible but could be a good idea. The new Ladybird project will be really interesting; it could be a real alternative browser people want!
Being able to boot a good browser on multiple operating systems, such as a minimal BSD, a minimal Linux from scratch style OS, or even a stripped-down SerenityOS variation, is exciting. This could be more secure and easier to innovate with because it has a better level of abstractions to draw upon.
The bootable web OS projects like Palm webOS, the booting Gecko/Firefox OS projects, and Chrome OS could offer interesting lessons for Ladybird.
Running a browser in a VM, on metal, or on an existing host OS like BSD or Linux is very useful. This approach could be secure and powerful enough to attract users for security, speed, or powerful user-centric reasons (not corporate/adware-centric).
Kling and the community he's assembled is "at risk" of helping solve some serious use-cases for people and industries while having fun! Google's OS development with Android, Chrome OS, and Fuchsia may seem complicated compared to what a Ladybird OS could do.
Android is complicated and advanced, but in practice, it's bloated and error-prone with terrible complexity. For example, Pixel users miss calls due to bugs, and there are problems calling emergency numbers. Think about the array of Android and iOS exploits. The attack surfaces and codebases are too big!
Given its complexity, I can see Google switching to working on Ladybird or a Go/Rust variant. Maybe even Apple will consider this. LLMs are now capable of semi-automatic porting with their large context windows. I think things could change fast, and maybe we'll have secure devices in our pockets one day.
I wonder what Alan Kay and his fellow researches would have to say about this.
I agree (apart from the popular hate on Firefox). Ladybird is promising and has a much bigger chance to make an impact than SerenityOS. But it's a bit disappointing to see that it's still pretty much a one-man project. Especially to have a chance to get close to the performance of Chrome and Firefox, it will need a large investment. The amount of engineering resources poured into just making JavaScript fast is mind-n…
I think the Firefox hate is completely justified. At this point the only positive thing about Firefox is that "at least it's not Chrome".
As a Firefox user, this exactly.
The amount of things that now need to be toggled off on a new install are approaching Windows “telemetry” levels:
disable sponsored shortcuts on homepage, disable experimental “Studies”, sponsored suggestions in search bar, “suggested extensions”, Pocket, and the list goes on.
I really need to look into a privacy friendly fork of FF..
It makes sense if he wants to make a useful web browser and leverage third party technologies for it, Serenity is totally from scratch. This should mean more time being spent on better problems in the web browser through reinventing fewer wheels and probably speed up the development of a new browser engine, which seems pretty interesting to me.
I agree (apart from the popular hate on Firefox). Ladybird is promising and has a much bigger chance to make an impact than SerenityOS. But it's a bit disappointing to see that it's still pretty much a one-man project. Especially to have a chance to get close to the performance of Chrome and Firefox, it will need a large investment. The amount of engineering resources poured into just making JavaScript fast is mind-n…
On recent hardware, how much "performance" do we really need? Wouldn't almost any compliant browser be basically good enough?
One would think so, but some browsers do not handle well repaints or do it prematurely. I've been testing a fediverse platform against a plethora of browsers, and I'm always surprised at the differences. It's not terrible, but some do take their time.
It should be fairly straightforward to get it running on any mainstream *nix system. I only called out macOS and Linux specifically because we have developers actively using those systems day-to-day. :)
I'm sure someone will come and help with the port! It's just a matter of time (:
The audacity to call this shameful is striking to me. If you feel strongly enough that this free, open source, extremely limited resource project (working on one of the largest problem spaces..) doesn't support FreeBSD, port it yourself instead of casting shame on others for not doing it. Hopefully your comment is more lighthearted than I'm giving it credit for.
Ladybird has garnered a level of mainstream attention that SerenityOS never really managed to. The browser has the potential to impact many more people, and the project is well funded by large investors. It makes sense that Andreas would shift his focus to LadyBird at this point. While Safari is busy being Safari and Firefox is busy eating glue in the corner, I'd love to see LadyBird become a real contender in the br…
Yeah I agree. Would be nice to see a browser option that is not 20+ years old. People say it’s not doable but this here is a real opportunity.
> Would be nice to see a browser option that is not 20+ years old.