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What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

eugeneyan.com

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Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#61
post #17

Show me the use cases you have supported in production. Then I might read all the 30 pages praising the dozens (soon to be hundreds?) of “best practices” to build LLMs.

Or maybe they could choose to focus their attention on people that aren’t needlessly aggressive and adversarial.

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#62
post #17

Show me the use cases you have supported in production. Then I might read all the 30 pages praising the dozens (soon to be hundreds?) of “best practices” to build LLMs.

We use LLMs in dozens of different production applications for critical business flows. They allow for a lot of dynamism in our flows that aren’t amenable to direct quantitative reasoning or structured workflows. Double digit percents of our growth in the last year are entirely due to them. The biggest challenge is tool chain, limits on inference capacity, and developer understanding of the abilities, limits, and tec…

> We use LLMs in dozens of different production applications for critical business flows. They allow for a lot of dynamism in our flows that aren’t amenable to direct quantitative reasoning or structured workflows. Double digit percents of our growth in the last year are entirely due to them. The biggest challenge is tool chain, limits on inference capacity, and developer understanding of the abilities, limits, and techniques for using LLMs effectively.

That sounds like corporate buzzword salad. It doesn't tell much as it stands, not without at least one specific example to ground all those relative statements.

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#63
post #17

Show me the use cases you have supported in production. Then I might read all the 30 pages praising the dozens (soon to be hundreds?) of “best practices” to build LLMs.

Hi, Hamel here. I'm one of the co-authors. I'm an independent consultant and not all clients allow me to talk about their work.

However, I have two that do, which I've discussed in the article. These are two production use cases that I have supported (which again, are explicitly mentioned in the article):

1. https://www.honeycomb.io/blog/introducing-query-assistant

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_DMMlDuJB0

Other co-authors have worked on significant bodies of work:

Bryan Bischoff lead the creation of Magic in Hex: https://www.latent.space/p/bryan-bischof

Jason Liu created the most popular OSS libraries for structured data called instructor https://github.com/jxnl/instructor, and works with some of the leading companies in the space like Limitless and Raycast (https://jxnl.co/services/#current-and-past-clients)

Eugene Yan works with LLMs extensively at Amazon and uses that to inform his writing: https://eugeneyan.com/writing/ (However he isn't allowed to share specifics about Amazon)

I believe you might find these worth looking at.

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We use LLMs in dozens of different production applications for critical business flows. They allow for a lot of dynamism in our flows that aren’t amenable to direct quantitative reasoning or structured workflows. Double digit percents of our growth in the last year are entirely due to them. The biggest challenge is tool chain, limits on inference capacity, and developer understanding of the abilities, limits, and tec…

> We use LLMs in dozens of different production applications for critical business flows. They allow for a lot of dynamism in our flows that aren’t amenable to direct quantitative reasoning or structured workflows. Double digit percents of our growth in the last year are entirely due to them. The biggest challenge is tool chain, limits on inference capacity, and developer understanding of the abilities, limits, and t…

Hi, Hamel here. I'm one of the co-authors. I'm an independent consultant and not all clients allow me to talk about their work.

However, I have two that do, which I've discussed in the article. These are two production use cases that I have supported (which again, are explicitly mentioned in the article):

1. https://www.honeycomb.io/blog/introducing-query-assistant

2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_DMMlDuJB0

Other co-authors have worked on significant bodies of work:

Bryan Bischoff lead the creation of Magic in Hex: https://www.latent.space/p/bryan-bischof

Jason Liu created the most popular OSS libraries for structured data called instructor https://github.com/jxnl/instructor, and works with some of the leading companies in the space like Limitless and Raycast (https://jxnl.co/services/#current-and-past-clients)

Eugene Yan works with LLMs extensively at Amazon and uses that to inform his writing: https://eugeneyan.com/writing/ (However he isn't allowed to share specifics about Amazon)

I believe you might find these worth looking at.

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#65
post #17

Show me the use cases you have supported in production. Then I might read all the 30 pages praising the dozens (soon to be hundreds?) of “best practices” to build LLMs.

I think it comes down to relatively unexciting use cases that have a high business impact (process automation, RPA, data analysis), not fancy chatbots or generative art.

For example, we focused on the boring and hard task of web data extraction.

Traditional web scraping is labor-intensive, error-prone, and requires constant updates to handle website changes. It's repetitive and tedious, but couldn't be automated due to the high data diversity and many edge cases. This required a combination of rule-based tools, developers, and constant maintenance.

We're now using LLMs to generate web scrapers and data transformation steps on the fly that adapt to website changes, automating the full process end-to-end.

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#66
post #17

Show me the use cases you have supported in production. Then I might read all the 30 pages praising the dozens (soon to be hundreds?) of “best practices” to build LLMs.

Hello, it’s Bryan, an author on this piece.

I’d you’re interested in using one of the LLM-applications I have in prod, check out https://hex.tech/product/magic-ai/ It has a free limit every month to give it a try and see how you like it. If you have feedback after using it, we’re always very interested to hear from users.

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#67

No offense, but I'd love to see what they've successfully built using LLMs before taking their advice too seriously. The idea that fine-tuning isn't even a consideration (perhaps even something they think is absolutely incorrect if the section titles of the unfinished section is anything to go by) is very strange to me and suggests a pretty narrow perspective IMO

Hello, it’s Bryan, an author on this piece.

I’d you’re interested in using one of the LLM-applications I have in prod, check out https://hex.tech/product/magic-ai/ It has a free limit every month to give it a try and see how you like it. If you have feedback after using it, we’re always very interested to hear from users.

As far as fine-tuning in particular, our consensus is that there are easier options first. I personally have fine-tuned gpt models since 2022; here’s a silly post I wrote about it on gpt 2: https://wandb.ai/wandb/fc-bot/reports/Accelerating-ML-Conten...

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#68
post #17

Show me the use cases you have supported in production. Then I might read all the 30 pages praising the dozens (soon to be hundreds?) of “best practices” to build LLMs.

Processing high volumes of unstructured data (text)… we’re using a STAG architecture. - Generate targeted LLM micro summaries of every record (ticket, call, etc.) continually - Use layers of regex, semantic embeddings, and scoring enrichments to identify report rows (pivots on aggregates) worth attention, running on a schedule - Proactively explain each report row by identifying what’s unusual about it and LLM summar…

We actually built an error-tolerant JSON parser to handle this. Our customers were reporting exactly the same issue- trying a bunch of different techniques to get more usefully structured data out.

You can check it out over at https://github.com/BoundaryML/baml. Would love to talk if this is something that seems interesting!

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking even a top-notch LLM to output well formed JSON simply fails sometimes. And when you’re running LLMs at high volume in the background, you can’t use the best available until the last mile. You work around it with post-processing and retries. But it’s still a bit brittle given how much stuff happens downstream without supervision.

Constrained output with GBNF or JSON is much more efficient and less error-prone. I hope nobody outside of hobby projects is still using error/retry loops.

Constraining output means you don’t get to use ChatGPT or Claude though, and now you have to run your own stuff. Maybe for some folks that’s OK, but really annoying for others.

Re: What we've learned from a year of building with LLMs

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Constrained output with GBNF or JSON is much more efficient and less error-prone. I hope nobody outside of hobby projects is still using error/retry loops.

Constraining output means you don’t get to use ChatGPT or Claude though, and now you have to run your own stuff. Maybe for some folks that’s OK, but really annoying for others.

You're totally right, I'm in my own HPC bubble. The organizations I work with create their own models and it's easy for me to forget that's the exception more than the rule. I apologize for making too many assumptions in my previous comment.
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