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The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

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61–70 of 88 posts

Re: The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

#61
The problem here comes from poor experiment design. Seeing how many sales you get from 100 cold calls has no control, and produces a single datapoint. No matter what number you get, be it 0, 2, or 37, will be useless for predicting future sales.

First, you need a sample size that will produce a statistically significant result. Cold calls are expected to have a low success rate and be highly variable. 2 in 100 could very well be a massive success. 0 in 100 wouldn't rule out its viability. If instead you had a sample size of 2000, then you'd get a very good signal to noise ratio.

Then, you need controls. Look up statistical design of experiments (DOE), you'll find efficient ways for finding how much various different factors affect your results. Basically split up those 2000 calls into groups and vary things as you go, so instead of testing whether a specific cold call technique is working, you can see if cold calls in general work.

Finally, understand what success means. A business does not need to rigorously prove that it's methods are optimal, it needs only to find an adequate strategy to achieve its objectives. You should know what it costs to make 2000 cold calls, you should know how much revenue is generated from a sale, there should be a specific threshold where the number of sales justifies the cold calls. You should be doing a process capability study that you are sufficiently over this threshold that, given expected variation, you will remain above it most of the time. What is your Cpk? How much does it vary among the different sub-experiments you performed?

At the end of the day, you're still going to need to make decisions with incomplete information, but don't pretend that you're making a data driven decision when you're not. The worst thing is not an inconclusive experiment, the worst thing is an experiment with an erroneous result you mistake for conclusive.

Re: The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

#62
post #61

The problem here comes from poor experiment design. Seeing how many sales you get from 100 cold calls has no control, and produces a single datapoint. No matter what number you get, be it 0, 2, or 37, will be useless for predicting future sales. First, you need a sample size that will produce a statistically significant result. Cold calls are expected to have a low success rate and be highly variable. 2 in 100 could…

> If instead you had a sample size of 2000, then you'd get a very good signal to noise ratio.

In modern statistics, even a small number of samples can be considered enough to get a satisfactorily small error range, as long as the sample is random and representative of the population. I would think 2,000 samples is far more than strictly required if you're able to sample from your target market.

Re: The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

#63

As an entrepreneur, my observation is that the vast majority of the experiments I run result in an outcome where the null hypothesis cannot be rejected. That is the case for most social science experiments (which is what marketing experiments really are.) But since I don't have to publish anything, I don't p-hack my results. If you think that scientific rigour will help you avoid the need for good judgement, you're i…

> If you think that scientific rigour will help you avoid the need for good judgement, you're in for a great deal of distress.

Broadly, assuming more data and tighter calculations == more certainty is a folly endemic to engineering-focused organizations and industries. In reality, you're increasing precision without increasing accuracy: a dangerously misleading state. It's understandable: organizations obviously need to play to their strengths, but there's real danger in succumbing to the "when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail" mindset. Firstly, It's much easier for non-engineers to parse the difficulty of engineering problems than the other way around. Outsiders easily see that they don't have the requisite chops to do engineering work. Secondly, cutting through ambiguity and unpredictability to reveal factors you can control is critical to engineering, while non-engineering jobs like management, design, and community outreach are hard because you must confront those things. Engineering types often reason about non-engineering problems either like they have the same level of predictability, or simply disregard the ambiguous and unpredictable factors because they don't fit into an equation.

It's easy to see why that micromanaging non-technical manager screwed up by insisted on using some technology or approach they read a snappy article about; an engineer's authority is cut-and-dried in that situation. It's harder to see why purely formulaic approaches often fail dealing with people, nature, markets, etc. Most things in the world are far more complex, temperamental, and less predictable than cache invalidation.

Re: The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

#64
post #10

> So when a startup comes to me with an idea for an experiment, the one thing I tell them is: make sure that there’s a well-defined distinction between success and failure. Don't fall in the messy middle. Mediocrity is often enough to put food on the table. The world is full of companies aiming to survive for a few more quarters with their little mediocre product. And once a company embraces that idea there's usually…

Hmm, mediocrity can put a food on a table for already established corporation, but for a startup is not enough, is rather just a nail in the coffin.

Re: The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty low bar to call something click bait. It's not click bait just because you disagree with the content. Edit: and I think the title matched the content fairly ok?

It is clickbait, by definition. The title baited with a promise of one type of content, the click yielded a different type of content.

Ah, no, the article is about what it says in the title...

Are you referring to the slightly edited title someboty has put here at HN? But still, no dissonance with the content

Re: The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

#66

> The worst outcome, the very worst outcome, is to get a small but non-zero number of sales — say 1 or 2. Because now you're in a bind. Do you double down or pull the plug? Does cold-calling work or not? That seems like a failure to define success in the first place. That seems like doing an experiment and then deciding how it made you feel . You probably want to declare beforehand what your minimum number of sales w…

> That seems like a failure to define success in the first place.

You are in precise agreement with the article's own text: "So when a startup comes to me with an idea for an experiment, the one thing I tell them is: make sure that there’s a well-defined distinction between success and failure."

Re: The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

#69

My literal life goal is to have a software startup with moderate success WITHOUT VC funding. One that can sustain my lifestyle, but also keep me busy and happy without going completely overboard.

There are lots of these lifestyle businesses. You could reasonably build one with some smarts, good sales skills, and focusing on a market and ruthlessly optimizing.

Take a company like Pdfsimpli for instance.

Re: The danger of the mediocre success when testing startup hypotheses (2023)

#70

As an entrepreneur, my observation is that the vast majority of the experiments I run result in an outcome where the null hypothesis cannot be rejected. That is the case for most social science experiments (which is what marketing experiments really are.) But since I don't have to publish anything, I don't p-hack my results. If you think that scientific rigour will help you avoid the need for good judgement, you're i…

> If you think that scientific rigour will help you avoid the need for good judgement, you're in for a great deal of distress. Broadly, assuming more data and tighter calculations == more certainty is a folly endemic to engineering-focused organizations and industries. In reality, you're increasing precision without increasing accuracy: a dangerously misleading state. It's understandable: organizations obviously need…

> After a candidate's defeat in an election, you will be supplied with the "cause" of the voters' disgruntlement. Any conceivable cause can do. The media, however, go to great lengths to make the process "thorough" with their armies of fact-checkers. It is as if they wanted to be wrong with infinite precision (instead of accepting being approximately right, like a fable writer).

-- N.N. Taleb

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