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Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

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Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#61

Post by npteljes »

karma_pharmer wrote: post #60
npteljes wrote: post #59

I firmly believe that management doesn't, or shouldn't mind this. I think a successful company is not necessarily built on top talent, but rather on people whose behavior can be managed - and on managers that are similarly competent. Similar to how on a building site, extraordinary bricklayers are not necessary, only a specific kind of adequacy is. The other thing is that people who have something extraordinary also…

[flagged]

Not trolling, it's my genuine opinion, experience. For the spirit of curious discussion, what do you disagree with and why?

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#62

Post by ornornor »

bravetraveler wrote: post #55

Don't hesitate to look. There are offers out there. This was me until recently. I was at my limit of nonsense unrelated to the job... then unclear RTO policies started appearing. I put my foot out of the door and raised my concerns. Management then, in a panic, told me it's being used as a wedge. Platitudes like "Enforcement isn't likely" or "not worth thinking about" . They were right... but not the way they intende…

> It's the cheapest way to lay people off, get them to leave. The nefarious thing is it costs you, too.

And best of all, the hidden costs don’t show on the balance sheet for many many quarters, hopefully after the CxO has left and it’s someone else’s problem. It really is a victimless crime!

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#63

Post by bravetraveler »

ornornor wrote: post #62
bravetraveler wrote: post #55

Don't hesitate to look. There are offers out there. This was me until recently. I was at my limit of nonsense unrelated to the job... then unclear RTO policies started appearing. I put my foot out of the door and raised my concerns. Management then, in a panic, told me it's being used as a wedge. Platitudes like "Enforcement isn't likely" or "not worth thinking about" . They were right... but not the way they intende…

> It's the cheapest way to lay people off, get them to leave. The nefarious thing is it costs you, too. And best of all, the hidden costs don’t show on the balance sheet for many many quarters, hopefully after the CxO has left and it’s someone else’s problem. It really is a victimless crime!

Indeed, if at all!

This is a company everyone knows but expects nothing from. It's institution at this point, barely makes anything.

Not making a riddle, there aren't codes here. No, this also isn't a code. I'd outright say the company name if I wanted to communicate it

I know people like to read into things... So have that last paragraph of madness. Spare the effort

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#64

Post by wildrhythms »

solumunus wrote: post #14
tail_exchange wrote: post #13

I'm not seeing this at my workplace. People are doing what they are told, and they are returning to the office. Maybe because losing a job is risky right now, given the current job market. edit: don't get me wrong, I don't want RTO. I'm just saying that I'm personally not seeing people quit over it.

I wonder how many of those are actively looking for jobs.

I have my LinkedIn "Open to offers" at all times while I'm employed, and once a week I go thru and respond to recruiter messages, and do a couple of "Quick Apply" so it keeps me fresh in the algorithm. Takes about 7 minutes of my time.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#65

Post by wildrhythms »

greenthrow wrote: post #21
tucnak wrote: post #17

Genuine "top talent" is the people that care about the company; they aren't leaving.

Yeah, no. The only people who care about the company are the execs who own enough stock to care and green newbies who haven't been burned yet by companies who do not care about them at all.

Agreed. But I don't even think the higherups really care, as we see them too jump from company to company every few years.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#66

Post by bravetraveler »

bravetraveler wrote: post #55

Don't hesitate to look. There are offers out there. This was me until recently. I was at my limit of nonsense unrelated to the job... then unclear RTO policies started appearing. I put my foot out of the door and raised my concerns. Management then, in a panic, told me it's being used as a wedge. Platitudes like "Enforcement isn't likely" or "not worth thinking about" . They were right... but not the way they intende…

I can't edit now, but a point I missed.

Empty things like this serve as a function to identify workers who will allow themselves to be exploited. I was blind but now I see.

That's what I'm really getting at with "validation". They determined I was fine for this game. What about the next?

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#67

Post by SauciestGNU »

npteljes wrote: post #59

I firmly believe that management doesn't, or shouldn't mind this. I think a successful company is not necessarily built on top talent, but rather on people whose behavior can be managed - and on managers that are similarly competent. Similar to how on a building site, extraordinary bricklayers are not necessary, only a specific kind of adequacy is. The other thing is that people who have something extraordinary also…

This is an interesting perspective. I almost agree, in that many or most companies out there will be more or less fine with mid-tier talent. Not every company or product requires the best talent out there. But I still think there will be downstream effects to driving out strong performers, and time will be the judge there.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#68

Post by SauciestGNU »

kdmytro wrote: post #58
zx8080 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't they buy gym pass themselves? Or is it too expensive in London?

They do, but they buy a pass to a gym that is closer to home, which does not help building relationships within the company.

When I worked at a company with a gym, people would finesse their workout into their working day, so they weren't spending additional time in their day working out. That's the perk imo, the time savings and convenience, not saving on a gym membership.

Re: Ordered back to the office, top tech talent left instead, study finds

#70

Post by mlrtime »

anal_reactor wrote: post #47
noufalibrahim wrote: post #16

Since there are a lot of founders here, I'm curious about what your positions are whether you have any guides/references to creating a good environment. My own experience has been that with junior talent, they don't gel with the team and don't have anything in common with the rest of the employees outside of the project they're working on.

I'm a junior. First I worked at a small company that was oriented towards remote work. At the beginning I would show up in the office, but the company had a policy "instead of talking to me, can you write a message on public Slack channel, or even better, make a github issue I'll get back to later?", which made me furious because I'm a naturally talkative person. So I spent two years working remotely. Not gonna lie,…

"instead of talking to me, can you write a message on public Slack channel, or even better, make a github issue"

Right because context switches are very expensive, and you are just one person. If everyone did what you did, the other end would be busy talking and not doing.

Instead, file your bug/report and give some indication of criticality. I understand why you don't like this approach but think of it from the other side's perspective.

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