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Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

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61–70 of 114 posts

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#61
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

Given the monetary policy Satoshi chose and the headline he picked to include in the genesis block, I really don't think you can infer what he himself thought bitcoin was meant to become, even if he referred to it as cash originally. Beyond that I don't see how it matters what something was designed to do or what early adopters personally used it for or thought it was meant to be used for. The only relevance for a te…

Satoshi wrote extensively about what he imagined Bitcoin could become, including in emails to me that I later published. Certainly, what was done to the original Bitcoin completely voided Satoshi's goals and offers an abject lesson in the difficulty of keeping institutions on-track over time.

Note that the same tactics that were used to wreck Bitcoin are now being deployed against Nix, as the open source community has struggled to learn the right lessons from Bitcoin.

> it makes perfect sense to me that that's the feature the market converged to

The market certainly didn't converge to that outcome. It was the result of relentless political scheming and psychological manipulation of a small number of people, combined with criminal tactics like DDoS attacks. The winners of that fight have then tried to retcon what happened as some sort of natural or obvious outcome, but then why did it require so much viciousness and illegal behaviour?

The market value of all cryptocurrencies seems to move in tandem, or at least did many years ago when I last cared about this topic. It reflects nothing more than the general hype and brand awareness around Bitcoin and crypto. Certainly a "store of value" that can't directly be used to purchase things is worthless, as any government that wishes to void that store of value and force users back into their own currencies can do so overnight by simple legal fiat.

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#62
post #3

Not very surprising. He had already been arrested, back in 2002, for selling illegal stuff on eBay. He was somewhat of an attacker of Bitcoin, promoting his "bcash" fork.

Roger has consistently been promoting the same ideals from the beginning.

BCH was also never "his" fork, it was just the fork he started to support.

"bash" is a slur to attack the BCH fork, same as the character assassination that Roger has been subjected to.

Finally, he sold firecrackers on eBay.

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just maintain dual citizenship instead of needlessly renouncing?

Because US citizens have an IRS filing requirement even when living abroad. It is a very uncommon requirement among countries.

Some foreign banks simply don't _want_ to deal with American citizens, precisely because of the reporting requirements strong-armed in agreements with the US -- because they have to report those bank accounts back to the states every year (or quarter).

It's not like the US is funding that foreign work to be done on their behalf, either. So the reticence to even bother with creating bank accounts for American citizens makes sense.

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#64
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin was designed as an investment vehicle Please read the whitepaper [0], at least its title [0] https://www.bitcoin.com/bitcoin.pdf

I guess it was lucky that it was designed quite badly for the stated purpose and it was actually designed as investment vessel.

Bitcoin (BTC) worked perfectly as currency in the beginning, until Blockstream took over the development team, and they decided to keep the temporary anti-spam 1MB block limit, making 0-confirmation transactions (instant payments) very risky by implementing return-by-fee (which make transactions reversible before getting confirmed), etc.

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. https://www.usa.gov/social-security-abroad

How about healthcare? I was under the impression that it isn't provided even if you live in US. Pensions for elderly works within borders of EU. You can for example move from Netherlands to Poland for retirement and get Dutch pension while living very comfortably in Poland.

Social services in the US include Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. (Note the capital letters. Those are the names of the agencies.) And yes, they all cover citizens living in and outside the United States.

The US government makes employers (corporations) pay a large amount of money into the private health insurance system (Required by law per employee. That sounds socialized, doesn't it?). They do that to reduce the tax burden on the poor, and to maintain healthy competition in the insurance market, for better or for worse.

In my opinion, that means doctors make more money because insurance companies put the burden of paying them on big corporations that can afford to do so.

Essentially, it means the poor get healthcare, the rich pay for it, and small business owners can expense it as a reduction in tax liability.

What do you suppose you'd do if you were an employer (a corporation) with global media reach who didn't want the government to force you to pay for your workers' health care?

Well, I think you'd invest a lot into propaganda teaching people that rich corporations shouldn't pay it, the government (aka poor taxpayers) should pay for it.

And that's why so many people are under the same impression that you have (or had).

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#66

Look, if you owe lots of tax its because you made lots of money. Pay the tax, be happy. I just don't get why some people are so obsessed with not paying tax. You don't have to pay tax when you didn't earn money so stop being so stingy. I know lots of people who go to extraordinary lengths to reduce the amount of tax they will pay even if it means they end up with less money in their pocket . It's crazy. Needing to pa…

> You don't have to pay tax when you didn't earn money so stop being so stingy.

But you have to pay a fixed VAT for what you buy, even if that is food or clothing to survive. Remember, you pay twice.

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#68
post #67

> Ver was arrested this weekend in Spain based on the U.S. criminal charges. John McAfee was also arrested in Spain in 2021 for tax evasion taxes, and was found dead in prison. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27609027

- anything to declare?

- yeah, don't go to Spain

(c) Snatch

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#69
post #3

Not very surprising. He had already been arrested, back in 2002, for selling illegal stuff on eBay. He was somewhat of an attacker of Bitcoin, promoting his "bcash" fork.

For reference, that "illegal stuff" were just fireworks (too powerful, I guess) [0]. Those "attacks" are fully explained in his recent book "Hijacking Bitcoin: The Hidden History of BTC" [1]. He didn't fork Bitcoin, he just proposed its name: Bitcoin Cash [2], which is not "bcash" [2][3].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ver [1] https://www.hijackingbitcoin.com/ [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitcoin_Cash [3] https://medium.com/@jonaldfyookball/why-some-people-call-bit...

Re: Early Bitcoin Investor Roger Ver Charged with Tax Fraud

#70
Very interesting that he got arrested in Spain for tax fraud, just like John McAfee.

Things look quite bad for him, he went all in on Bitcoin Cash, and even used leverage. He defaulted on CoinFLEX and owes them $47M in USDC. Roger Ver went from owning 131,000 Bitcoins in 2014 (worth almost 8 billion USD as of today) to pretty much broke.

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