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Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

blog.redplanetlabs.com

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Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#61

Post by sokoloff »

geodel wrote: post #12
metadat wrote: post #2

> Rama can build end-to-end backends at any scale on its own in a tiny fraction of the code. At its core is a new programming language implementing a new programming paradigm.. Grand claims, but where are the super powerful demo apps? The getting started docs are a trickle of info.. https://redplanetlabs.com/docs/~/operating-rama.html#_access... The "demo gallery" has a few cherry picked examples, but I don't see how…

Well there is whole bank transfer implementation there and thoroughly commented too. Some entrepreneur can take this and run with it to create next generation banking platform.

Maybe they could call their new Clojure-based bank Nubank.

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#63

Post by erichocean »

sokoloff wrote: post #61
geodel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well there is whole bank transfer implementation there and thoroughly commented too. Some entrepreneur can take this and run with it to create next generation banking platform.

Maybe they could call their new Clojure-based bank Nubank.

Obv. Unicorn potential.

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#64

Post by jabradoodle »

cactusfrog wrote: post #16
metadat wrote: post #2

> Rama can build end-to-end backends at any scale on its own in a tiny fraction of the code. At its core is a new programming language implementing a new programming paradigm.. Grand claims, but where are the super powerful demo apps? The getting started docs are a trickle of info.. https://redplanetlabs.com/docs/~/operating-rama.html#_access... The "demo gallery" has a few cherry picked examples, but I don't see how…

The Clojure community is extremely cult like. I worked with a dev who tried to push Datomic, and despite the huge flaws with his system, and the fact that it was closed source, he would continuously tout how much better it was than a relational database. I don’t believe the hype.

N=1, I work with many pragmatic clojure devs who just want to ship working software.

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#65

Post by epolanski »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #29
epolanski wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I've expressed myself well. When I say software at scale I mean: - going on GitHub opening a file and understanding what's happening - reviewing a PR and figuring out stuff without requiring an ide - having easy onboarding with devs already accustomed to a base language and its patterns Java, C, TypeScript, Scala, Kotlin, etc. Pretty much all major languages offer this: less power but much less ambiguit…

And this is just not true: I’ve worked on large lisp programs in various situations with minimal documentation and done just fine.

That's not a strong argument.

That's like saying world hunger does not exist because you had lasagna for dinner.

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#66

Post by samsquire »

From just thinking about the architecture of Rama I feel it would scale very well.

Data parallelism and partitioning and sharding is a very effective scaling technique.

Nathan, I would appreciate writings about the mental model of mapping software to your mental model of implementing behaviours in the streaming data approach because it is a different paradigm.

I can't read the DSL yet and know what is going on!

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#67

Post by gorjusborg »

cactusfrog wrote: post #39
undershirt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know our engineering discipline is in shambles, but there are probably better ways to argue against hype without ourselves using hyperbole.

I don’t believe I’m exaggerating. You can replace “Clojure” with “Jesus” in the linked article and it still makes sense.

Clojure is not special in that it has some zealots.

It's easier to call others out when they aren't in the mainstream, but I'd say that there are way more mainstream cult members than these niche communities. For instance, HN itself can feel a bit cult-like. The greater tech culture feels similarly.

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#68

Post by nathanmarz »

samsquire wrote: post #66

From just thinking about the architecture of Rama I feel it would scale very well. Data parallelism and partitioning and sharding is a very effective scaling technique. Nathan, I would appreciate writings about the mental model of mapping software to your mental model of implementing behaviours in the streaming data approach because it is a different paradigm. I can't read the DSL yet and know what is going on!

The best documentation on the mental model of using Rama is the last page of the tutorial, linked below. However, I would recommend going through the whole tutorial rather than starting there.

https://redplanetlabs.com/docs/~/tutorial6.html

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#69

Post by nathanmarz »

JonChesterfield wrote: post #62

Fragment sounds like actor to me. Stateful thing that sends messages to other fragments. Not convinced that's a generalisation of a function.

Fragments have nothing to do with actors. Check out the doc on the dataflow language and you'll clearly see it's a generalization of a function.

https://redplanetlabs.com/docs/~/clj-dataflow-lang.html

Re: Rama is a testament to the power of Clojure

#70

Post by lispisok »

cactusfrog wrote: post #16
metadat wrote: post #2

> Rama can build end-to-end backends at any scale on its own in a tiny fraction of the code. At its core is a new programming language implementing a new programming paradigm.. Grand claims, but where are the super powerful demo apps? The getting started docs are a trickle of info.. https://redplanetlabs.com/docs/~/operating-rama.html#_access... The "demo gallery" has a few cherry picked examples, but I don't see how…

The Clojure community is extremely cult like. I worked with a dev who tried to push Datomic, and despite the huge flaws with his system, and the fact that it was closed source, he would continuously tout how much better it was than a relational database. I don’t believe the hype.

You just generalized an entire community based on one person. I can add a counter anecdote to your N=1. I'm a Clojure dev. I've used and enjoyed Datomic. Postgres is still my goto database.
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