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America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

economist.com

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Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#61

Post by akmarinov »

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #28
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14

Well then, aren't we lucky that there are so many people who want to come to America? It might be a good idea to, y'know, let them in and allow them to work. This is such an easy to solve problem. If only we would decide to solve it.

>”It might be a good idea to, y'know, let them in and allow them to work.” There is no need to be glib. The United States already has the world’s most generous immigration policy. And, what is likely the most lenient stance towards illegal immigration and foreign labor of any developed nation.

The world’s most generous immigration policy? How do you figure? It’s super hard to immigrate to the US

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#62

Post by Jensson »

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #56
6865 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think they're being glib. Do you have examples of the generosity? My SO is American (I'm a European with nearing ten years of IT work experience and counting) and we are going through the immigration system, to call it a hell hole is an insult to hell. A generous policy would be to make the process simple for individuals that are able to work and contribute on their own. That is not the case.

Generosity doesn’t mean rubber stamping everyone who wants to emigrate. “Simple” seems to imply that becoming a citizen should just involve filling out a few forms. I don’t think people truly appreciate the sheer number of people who are trying to emigrate. If I may, which European country do you belong to? I invite you to compare your own nation’s legal emigration numbers and procedures to that of the US. I suspect…

Divide by population, absolute numbers doesn't give a fair picture.

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#63

Post by Wowfunhappy »

dgoldstein0 wrote: post #53
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why are we discussing population decline? I'm just saying, if we need more people, we know where to get them.

The projections are that population decline will hit the whole world, it's just hitting developed nations first. So immigration is only a temporary solution that'll last a few decades. If we really want to address population decline, we have to reverse the reasons people are choosing to have fewer children. Which starts with policies aimed to give child-bearing aged adults better financial stability, affordable housi…

> The projections are that population decline will hit the whole world, it's just hitting developed nations first.

And that's a serious problem for the rest of the world! It's not a problem for the US, or any other country rich enough that people are clamoring to immigrate.

Sure, the world will eventually run out of people I guess. But there are so many people who want to come here, that time is exceedingly far away. And population decline is okay if it happens very slowly.

Edit: I'm not against the other policies you listed, I just don't think we need them because of "population decline" specifically. I'm not convinced they would even help with population decline, because families with higher incomes--ie more access to childcare, housing, and so on--are having fewer kids just like everyone else. Immigration, by contrast, really will quite transparently address the need for more people.

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#64

Post by Wowfunhappy »

BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #56
6865 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not think they're being glib. Do you have examples of the generosity? My SO is American (I'm a European with nearing ten years of IT work experience and counting) and we are going through the immigration system, to call it a hell hole is an insult to hell. A generous policy would be to make the process simple for individuals that are able to work and contribute on their own. That is not the case.

Generosity doesn’t mean rubber stamping everyone who wants to emigrate. “Simple” seems to imply that becoming a citizen should just involve filling out a few forms. I don’t think people truly appreciate the sheer number of people who are trying to emigrate. If I may, which European country do you belong to? I invite you to compare your own nation’s legal emigration numbers and procedures to that of the US. I suspect…

Look. I'm not even necessarily trying to argue that we should have more immigration. But, only one of the below statements can be true:

• The US has too few people.

• The US has too many people.

If the former, we should increase immigration beyond whatever the current levels are.

If the latter, population decline obviously isn't a concern.

Which of these universes do we live in? It can't be both.

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#65

Post by grotorea »

vondur wrote: post #21

The US will import people from other countries. We are doing it now.

Will that fix the issue in the article? New immigrants presumably are some of the people that are the most free to pick anywhere in the country to move to, so they will be even more prone to going to big cities that are already growing.

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#66

Post by peteradio »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #64
BuyMyBitcoins wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generosity doesn’t mean rubber stamping everyone who wants to emigrate. “Simple” seems to imply that becoming a citizen should just involve filling out a few forms. I don’t think people truly appreciate the sheer number of people who are trying to emigrate. If I may, which European country do you belong to? I invite you to compare your own nation’s legal emigration numbers and procedures to that of the US. I suspect…

Look. I'm not even necessarily trying to argue that we should have more immigration. But, only one of the below statements can be true: • The US has too few people. • The US has too many people. If the former, we should increase immigration beyond whatever the current levels are. If the latter, population decline obviously isn't a concern. Which of these universes do we live in? It can't be both.

People are not fungible. There is potentially such a thing as a wrong/right person to fill a slot.

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#67

Post by 48864w6ui »

chaostheory wrote: post #10

The US and Canada can better handle a falling population because we are better at handling immigration compared to the rest of the world. Sure, there’s been recent pushback but no one is better at assimilation than the US and Canada. Maybe Australia and NZ are also close to us given their history? I didn’t see any good argument how we’re worse than the rest of the world, especially compared Germany, Japan, South Kore…

Look at the map: not ghost cities, ghost hinterlands.

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#68

Post by 48864w6ui »

grotorea wrote: post #65
vondur wrote: post #21

The US will import people from other countries. We are doing it now.

Will that fix the issue in the article? New immigrants presumably are some of the people that are the most free to pick anywhere in the country to move to, so they will be even more prone to going to big cities that are already growing.

Thus demonstrating more common sense than the indigenous who don't budge from contracting areas?

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#69

Post by grotorea »

48864w6ui wrote: post #68
grotorea wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will that fix the issue in the article? New immigrants presumably are some of the people that are the most free to pick anywhere in the country to move to, so they will be even more prone to going to big cities that are already growing.

Thus demonstrating more common sense than the indigenous who don't budge from contracting areas?

I think that's too dismissive of the their reasons. Migrants just have more flexibility and for good reasons.

Re: America is uniquely ill-suited to handle a falling population

#70

Post by geodel »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #14

Well then, aren't we lucky that there are so many people who want to come to America? It might be a good idea to, y'know, let them in and allow them to work. This is such an easy to solve problem. If only we would decide to solve it.

Its easy in same sense that one can convert extra room in home into homeless shelter considering so many people in cities are facing homelessness.

Further even when you let people in they most likely live and work which are already crowded because thats where opportunity will be. They are not going to live in ghost towns of America that article refers.

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