Myths about the Anthropocene • Hacker News Board

Re: Myths about the Anthropocene

#61

Post by kadoban » Sat, Apr 20, 2024, 4:29 PM UTC

Nevermark wrote: post #45

kadoban wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't really fix anything, because no matter what you call Pluto, it has to get demoted from the list of planet-like-things-whatever-we-call-them that school children learn. The issue is that there's hundreds of objects at least as planet-y as Pluto is, and nobody is going to remember all of those. So either we demote Pluto somehow, or we have to have some reason that it's more important than the rest. So, Plu…

I agree, distinguishing between the importance of things is helpful. But changing “planet” to not include Pluto just created unending inconsistency. There is nothing that screamed “not planet” about Pluto until some scientists preconceptions and emotional investment about the numbers of planets got challenged. People now have to learn by rote that Pluto is not a planet. Because “scientists say so”, not because they a…

> There is nothing that screamed “not planet” about Pluto until some scientists preconceptions and emotional investment about the numbers of planets got challenged.

> People now have to learn by rote that Pluto is not a planet. Because “scientists say so”, not because they are actually becoming sensitive to debris fields.

Even the other dwarfs we know of so far seem to make it a different category to me. Pluto is a lot more like them than it's like even Mercury.

https://planetseducation.com/dwarf-planets/

> The link between orbital debris and planetary size isn’t even going to hold with future discoveries. So the new restrictive regular language-unfriendly definition isn’t even going to be stable.

Are you saying that we're going to find huge planets that haven't cleared their neighborhoods? That sounds unlikely.

Re: Myths about the Anthropocene

#62

Post by masklinn » Sat, Apr 20, 2024, 6:50 PM UTC

Nevermark wrote: post #49

masklinn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only waste of time is from emotionally charged reactions like yours. The IAU vote happened 18 years ago, yet you can’t let it go. The grandfathering idea makes a negative amount of sense. These are technical classifications on objective criteria.

> The IAU vote happened 18 years ago, yet you can’t let it go. The IAU happened 18 years ago but the vast public hasn’t cottened on to the whole new “cleared orbital debris” concept tacked on to a word that already has widespread use and understanding. Mistakes don’t become not mistakes because of 18 years. The mistake was that it’s predictable that two definitions for “planet” will still be jostling each other 50 ye…

> The IAU happened 18 years ago but the vast public hasn’t cottened on to the whole new “cleared orbital debris” concept

The vast public doesn't generally cotton to anything. People don't routinely specify that they're talking about non-avian dinosaurs, or non-tetrapod fishes.

Which doesn't matter, because nobody expects the general public to actually be precise, so nobody gives a shit.

> a word that already has widespread use and understanding.

An enumeration is not an understanding. There is no understanding where Pluto is a planet and Eris is not.

> without attempts at universal redefinition by a minority of people who use the word for highly specialized reasons.

You mean the people who actually use the words as if they meant something?

> What are regular people supposed to say now when they want to say what planet meant which includes Mercury and Pluto? “Planetary like things?”???

That scenario occurs about as often as regular people wanting to say planet excluding pluto before the vote: they're never precise enough that it matters, and in the zero cases where it happens, they can just specify "incuding pluto" or "excluding pluto".

Re: Myths about the Anthropocene

#63

Post by masklinn » Sat, Apr 20, 2024, 6:52 PM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #55

masklinn wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only waste of time is from emotionally charged reactions like yours. The IAU vote happened 18 years ago, yet you can’t let it go. The grandfathering idea makes a negative amount of sense. These are technical classifications on objective criteria.

Sometimes when forming standards, it is worthwhile to grandfather something in, just for the pure logistical effort needed to change. Consider that every single book, textbook, poster, pamphlet in the entire world has to be edited and re-printed. Just so we don't have the numbers go to 9. Every kid for decades was taught about the 9th planet Pluto. 18 years later, and a lot of people still refer to it as a Planet. An…

> Someone needs to look in the mirror.

Your entire comment is a weak attempt to justify an emotional response on non-existent grounds and making shit up (wow, people have to update their understanding of classifications, such hard, so never happens), and you waste more time on a subject you complain is a waste of time.

You really should talk to your therapist about your unhealthy relationship with pluto.

Re: Myths about the Anthropocene

#64

Post by FrustratedMonky » Sun, Apr 21, 2024, 12:20 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #63

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes when forming standards, it is worthwhile to grandfather something in, just for the pure logistical effort needed to change. Consider that every single book, textbook, poster, pamphlet in the entire world has to be edited and re-printed. Just so we don't have the numbers go to 9. Every kid for decades was taught about the 9th planet Pluto. 18 years later, and a lot of people still refer to it as a Planet. An…

> Someone needs to look in the mirror. Your entire comment is a weak attempt to justify an emotional response on non-existent grounds and making shit up (wow, people have to update their understanding of classifications, such hard, so never happens), and you waste more time on a subject you complain is a waste of time. You really should talk to your therapist about your unhealthy relationship with pluto.

Do you hear yourself?

Pluto was big enough for your mom.