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The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

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Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#61
post #46
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in this trap right now a little bit. After a particularly egregious instance of feeling passed over for a promo, how can I trust that the next jerkoff won't do the same thing?

> how can I trust that the next jerkoff won't do the same thing You 100% can trust that they will do the exact same thing, accept that you are always rolling the dice and progress at the irrational whim of some higher power in the organisation.

You make think that you're hiding this attitude in your professional life, but you're not. The reason it keeps happening to you is you've created a self-fulling prophecy.

I'm a manager and it's odd that you think 1. we don't care for and push really hard to progress the people we manage, and 2. somehow we're so different that we're not in the same situation.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#62
post #7

I began as a junior dev and climbed up the ranks til the point where I became the SME in some areas of the product. Got laid off because sales goals were not met while they retained people which I think were incompetent in their work. Even some guys which I think were better and more critical to the projects were dumped. I'm not climbing that ladder by being proactive and "pragmatic" again... Call me a paycheck steal…

Yep. After being laid off, I decided that I am best working with the diligence of a Boeing QA engineer. Do the bare minimum and use overemployment to flee the work world as fast as possible.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#63
This is an appealing narrative without evidence.

How does the author know Marias make up the majority of most companies? Where's the data supporting that claim?

It may be true - it sounds plausible to those of us who've been a Maria in the salt mines of a dysfunctional company.

It appeals to us to think we're the hidden gems the company needs to invest in.

Something being appealing doesn't make it true, though, even if you can tell a just-so story about it.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#64
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just give me some JIRA ticket and let me read books while I get my job done in 1-2 hours a day. Aren't we all (normal and decent people) doing this already?

No. Many of us are working hard, trying to get real work done. And spending 20-40 mins a day checking Hacker News :) Seriously though, don’t you feel bad by not pulling your weight? Someone has to get your work done.

> Someone has to get your work done.

What makes it "my work"? That is for management to decide, is it not?

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#65
I don't know if this is related, but growing up there were certain values instilled in me that went something like "don't toot your own horn," "it's better to be seen and not heard," "keep your head down," etc. The main gist being that I should just do my job quietly, competently, and stay out of the way.

In practice, this resulted in me being effectively invisible to management, even when I was out-performing everyone else on the team. The guys who were loud and boisterous and constantly cawing about their achievements got all the raises and promotions, even though I was consistently doing more and better work. This came to a head when someone with far less seniority was promoted over me. I brought it up with my boss who said something like "I don't even know what you do all day. I never hear from you." The guy who was promoted would literally spend twice as much time boasting about what he was doing that actually doing it. I was objectively more productive, as in, there were metrics showing my productivity was significantly higher, but since I wasn't talking about what I was doing, I was unseen.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#66
post #16

I don’t think I can agree that 75% of the workforce falls into one quadrant. Particularly this one. If I’m very lucky the semi space contains 60% of my coworkers, if I’m unlucky (or arrive after the writing is on the wall) it’s more like 1/3. I suspect part of the confusion is that there are some people with enough political acumen to appear like frustrated agents of change without actually having the drive or skill…

I don't even think Pragmatists are "smart", or if they are it shows it self in the non-book ways. I'd be more inclined to describe them as "clever". If you've heard the "Smart, and gets stuff done" ideal, they're more of the latter.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#68
I strongly buy the premise of this article, and it goes beyond people who try to fly under the radar and blend in because of toxic politics. Even in companies without toxic politics, a lot of managers subconsciously overestimate the abilities of engineers who regularly propose ambitious, complex solutions, and underestimate the abilities of engineers who are more leery of complexity. This not only leads to unnecessary boondoggle projects, it also results in managers not assigning challenging work to engineers who are quite capable of doing it, which is the waste the article describes.

I was fortunate early in my career to have managers who had strong technical judgment themselves and rewarded it in their engineers, managers who spent their innovation tokens but spent them very carefully, so later in my career I was able to recognize when I had managers who relied on crude heuristics like assuming the engineers who proposed the most complex projects had the best judgment and the best ability to execute.

One simple hack I use all the time, regardless of my manager's personality, is to say, "It would be fun." As in, "It would be fun to handle this with an event-driven system using Kafka. We could build an incredibly scalable and resilient system that way. I'd love to tackle a project like that, but I don't think we can justify it, because it would take more time and more engineers to build and be more expensive to operate, and I think our existing system only needs a few tweaks to what we need, even if we execute on our entire product roadmap and exceed our sales goals. I think we should take a careful look at tweaking the existing system, and if that won't get us what we need, we might have to build the more expensive solution."

This lets me advertise my awareness of a fancier architectural solution, as well as my ability and willingness to execute on it, without actually saying that it's a good idea.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#69
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just give me some JIRA ticket and let me read books while I get my job done in 1-2 hours a day. Aren't we all (normal and decent people) doing this already?

No. Many of us are working hard, trying to get real work done. And spending 20-40 mins a day checking Hacker News :) Seriously though, don’t you feel bad by not pulling your weight? Someone has to get your work done.

You get the work done that the position requires. If you can do that in a couple of hours, I see no incentive whatsoever for most employees to increase productivity beyond the requirement for the position plus maybe some minor stuff that won’t be enough to encourage additional responsibilities.

If they want more than that, employers should pay significantly more than their competitors for those services, or significant stock bonuses tied to departmental efficiency, or some other add-on compensation that incentivises increased productivity.

Re: The biggest source of waste is untapped skilled pragmatists

#70
post #37
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men. A company that doesn’t know what’s broken is doomed to mediocrity. But some people want to play music while the ship sinks. So they arrange for the most pleasant rest of the voyage they can, instead of saving as many people as they can.

> I’ll be you ten bucks they got rid of people who bring up bad news and kept the yes-men I’m pretty cynical and assumed this was how layoffs worked but at least in faang and even smaller (maybe 500 people) SV companies, I actually don’t think this is the case anymore. Most I’ve seen have been extremely random – it seems like they cut teams/orgs very differently but on an individual level it seems random. I got the i…

This is a legal thing. If you do a layoff it's for business reasons and you can avoid all of the PIP and such. But if you do it that way you can't select based upon performance.
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