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Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

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61–70 of 94 posts

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#61

I'm still bullish on Framework but the quality control issues I have seen from the Framework 16 are unacceptable for a device that cost as much as it does. They have also reused elements from the older Framework laptops that they should not have, namely the smaller keyboard and the smaller trackpad. I hope they pull it together because I want them to succeed.

Note that both the keyboard and the touchpad are unique to the Framework Laptop 16. We reused the same keyswitch and keycap structure on the keyboard because the feedback we've gotten on those on Framework Laptop 13 have been almost universally positive. In Framework Laptop 16, we integrated them into a new module structure to enable Input Module swappability.

For the touchpad, similarly, we used the same controller chip because we've seen it work well on Framework Laptop 13, but the touchpad surface dimensions and overall structure are unique to Framework Laptop 16.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#62
post #16

I'm excited for their improvements. It's got to be incredibly hard to start a company that does what they do. Not the repairability part, but anything with modern hardware, firmware, and software. When I think of the other big names, they've all been around for quite some times and they were already established companies. I'm not excusing Framework, but I am excited for their future. My Framework 13 AMD has been runn…

Thanks for the trust and the belief, and we know that we need to prove it and live up to it by actually delivering on the results of product longevity.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#63

I have bought two Framework 13 laptops, and have been happy with them overall. I love their vision of a repairable laptop, and have replaced parts on them, without issue. That is a great achievement. I have had issues with drivers, and specifically had to reinstall windows to reflash firmware to get a new touch pad to work in linux. Bummer, but I'm also running on the fringe a little, so I accept that. Overall, the e…

Thanks. I'm happy to hear that it's been working well for you. I agree that we shouldn't be a given a pass. We're building $1000+ products that are pretty essential tools in peoples' lives. It's not enough for us to have the right philosophy, but to actually build products that live up to that philosophy.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#64
post #12

> Framework will need to step up its game, especially if it wants to sell more laptops to businesses—a lucrative slice of the PC industry that Framework is actively courting. This line really resonated with me. I own a 12th-gen Framework laptop personally, and have enjoyed using it enough that I wanted to have one at work as my existing machine is aging out. Like many businesses, my org requires some paperwork ("tele…

> Like many businesses, my org requires some paperwork ("telecom approval") in order to buy computing hardware, which is basically a short questionnaire that I assume to check off some "we're not actively trying to backdoor you" boxes. I've had vendors get this turned around in I'm not in this industry but do sell into regulated industries with vendor diligence practices. I would check your assumption that it's just…

> There's a big catch because often someone skilled enough to answer these questions would be better served actually doing things, e.g. writing code, and the people who can fill out these questions but not skilled enough to do the actual things are a weird middle-ground of mediocre that is hard to find. Really big companies often solve this by just paying overskilled people to do this for a few years, which is expensive and soul-destroying for the skilled person.

This is a really insightful comment, how do companies get around this issue (apart from paying overskilled people until they burnout)?

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#65
post #12

> Framework will need to step up its game, especially if it wants to sell more laptops to businesses—a lucrative slice of the PC industry that Framework is actively courting. This line really resonated with me. I own a 12th-gen Framework laptop personally, and have enjoyed using it enough that I wanted to have one at work as my existing machine is aging out. Like many businesses, my org requires some paperwork ("tele…

Hi, we agree that the response time on this is unacceptable. I've dug into it and we've now completed and replied with the form. Posting a comment on HN certainly shouldn't be the path to getting a response on an ask from us, whether for business or consumer support. On the business side of this, we're building a Customer Success team whose sole responsibility is making sure that our business customers have a dedicated and responsive point of contact to work with. The first job req for this team is currently live.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#66
post #19
post #12

> Framework will need to step up its game, especially if it wants to sell more laptops to businesses—a lucrative slice of the PC industry that Framework is actively courting. This line really resonated with me. I own a 12th-gen Framework laptop personally, and have enjoyed using it enough that I wanted to have one at work as my existing machine is aging out. Like many businesses, my org requires some paperwork ("tele…

I'm not sure businesses would be interested in a modular laptop, I always assumed they prefer to just buy new ones when the time comes rather than having someone spending the time to service them for the needed uogrades. Currently, they don't even bother trying to reinstall Windows, which I think it would solve most of the performance problems that surface after about 3 years of operation of a laptop (assuming it's u…

We've been getting a lot of interest and traction from SMBs, especially in the 50-200 person company range. What we're finding is that the strongest benefit to them isn't even the upgradeability (which they do like), but the reduction in employee downtime from being able to swap a part on the spot and get the employee up and running again.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#67
I've been pretty happy with my AMD Framework 13. There's been a couple of hiccups, but things have mostly worked well and I've gotten help, or at least explanations from the community forums for most issues I've hit. (Help getting the wifi working reliably in linux, an explanation for why the top of the touchpad isn't clickable, a workaround for charger incompatibility, etc.)

It sounds like the wifi issue has now been fixed upstream, and apparently the BIOS beta they just released improves charger compatibility.

So not perfect, but good and improving. I bought this thing to last a while, and I think they're on the right trajectory for that.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#68
post #17

I must admit I'm honestly not impressed with my Framework. I'm sure it's decent for a Windows laptop - the repairability alone is certainly enough to set it apart there - but coming from a MacBook, everything's just.. worse. Were MacBook upgrades not so expensive (all i want is 16GB!) and my love affair with NixOS, I'd probably have regretted buying one.

I have a Framework 16 pre-ordered and I've been waffling on whether to keep the preorder.

My daily driver is a MacBook and honestly... I'm not expecting that to change. So I guess I don't mind if the Framework is a worse experience than the MacBook. It just needs to do the few things that I need a Windows laptop for. (and maybe support some experiments using desktop Linux...)

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#69
post #41

I have bought two Framework 13 laptops, and have been happy with them overall. I love their vision of a repairable laptop, and have replaced parts on them, without issue. That is a great achievement. I have had issues with drivers, and specifically had to reinstall windows to reflash firmware to get a new touch pad to work in linux. Bummer, but I'm also running on the fringe a little, so I accept that. Overall, the e…

My biggest gripe is that for something intended to be DIY upgradable, 2 years later, there is a complete lack of ecosystem and parts for it. I was hoping for pluggable modules for {IMU, GPS, barometer, geiger counter, air quality sensor, software-defined radio, 5G cellular, RGB LEDs, power-over-ethernet charging, even a small motor module so the laptop can drag itself around on the table}. And what do we get? Some st…

Part of the reason is the compliance requirements. You need to pay quite a bit of money to USB-IF if you want to make anything USB and this is recurring as far as I know. There's also the other things like tests for EMC and ESD and whatnot. It either needs a big player to step up (you can use the same USB-IF membership for some tens of thousands of devices) or there should be a big enough market to support a smaller scale designer/manufacturer.

Re: Framework's software and firmware have been a mess, but it's working on them

#70
post #58

We are taking both the article and the comments here and elsewhere to heart. Our entire focus is on building products that get better over time through repair, upgrade, and overall design for longevity, and software is a necessary part of that. We recognize that we have fallen short of where we need to be, and are making the needed investments to resolve this. Last week, we published the final release for the Windows…

Thank you for the willingness to listen to and act on feedback!
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