The problem for me is not so much the hackathon, but the commodified entrepreneur in general. The whole ecosystem of accelerators, incubators, and mansions generate innovation culture not innovation. Kind of like going to jazz school. A total oxymoron.
I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
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Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#62Sometimes it's not about opportunism. I live in a 4 bedroom hacker house with 11 entrepreneurs/programmers. It's cramped, we have bunk beds and sleeping bags. I've personally never been happier.
Despite many of us being (second time) founders of companies, contractors, or having jobs, we hack together several times a week, work 14+ hour days (including weekends), manage CodeSF events monthly, find time to attend hackathons together, and learn + share knowledge together at our local hackerspace, Noisebridge.
Yes, there are opportunists in the world who want to make a quick buck.
There are also a lot of people who are genuinely enthused (obsessed) with computer science and who devote their lives to knowledge... Who learn how to implement JK flip flops on a breadboard, build languages entirely from lambda calculus, and study convex optimization in their free time. More importantly, they do so because they love hacking, not because they love being a hacker (though I admit hacker culture and community is something I value).
At this stage in my life, getting married and having a family would rob me of my youth more-so than any weekend hackathon -- but I'm sure this mindset will change sooner or later.
There are plenty of great hacker meetups and hackathons (Super Happy Dev House SHDH, for instance) and SF hackerspaces (Noisebridge, Hacker Dojo) which provide non-opportunistic methods for furthering your hacker-foo.
Ryan, I am not sure how many hackathons you've attended or possibly even hosted at "Treehouse Mansion", but it seems like you, especially, would understand the importance of hacker meetups and how to host one effectively. It's also possible you hire great engineers and not hackers, which is fine too.
Here is the _real_ problem: More people want to be hackers than are hackers. Many people only want the stigmas that comes along with being a 'hacker', a term whose meaning has been diluted and whose definition perpetually misrepresented and obfuscated by media.
In San Francisco, for instance, the terms entrepreneur and hacker have been squished uncomfortably close for my liking, partly as a result of media like Hacker News (who I'd argue contributes to the conflation of the term 'hacker' by catering primarily to a general technical startup audience).
I enjoy hacker news, admire Paul Graham and the rest of YC, and believe that anyone can launch a successful startup, with enough hard work and dedication. One problem is, great hackers are not always great entrepreneurs. Great entrepreneurs understand where there's demand for a hack, where many hackers simply want to work on the most exciting and technically challenging problems. Sometimes these two overlap beautifully (I think Stripe is a good example).
The bottom line is, movies like, "Social Network", and media like TechCrunch have spotlighted mergers and acquisitions, high valuations, and a party life style as hacker/entrepreneurial culture. From my experience, this has impacted hackathons in that judges favor high impact web 2.0 viable products over "righteous hacks".
Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can be taken advantage of simply by participating. Hackathons that are tacked on to events are a great example: they're simply a way to sell more tickets. I've been guilty of this in the past on shows we've done (Twitter's Chirp conf, etc). Can good things happen at these hackathons? You bet. That doesn't mean Developers shouldn't be careful though. As for "20-hour days", that's just a number you've thrown out. W…
Have you ever lived in a hacker house? I haven't, and if you haven't, then I don't think either of us are in the position to say the whole point of living in a hacker house is to work non-stop. You simply don't know that. Of course lots of work is going to get done at such a place, but who said that the experience and fun wouldn't also be incredibly beneficial to a young developer?
I lived in the Palo Alto hacker house for a time. It wasn't "rah-rah entrepeneurs!!!" - though it had some - it was just a comfortable place to talk with people on similar wavelengths.
Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm just not entirely sure how someone can be taken advantage of at a hackathon. Are you implying that someone will steal their product? Or that they'll somehow be convinced to give up a large % stake in their project by someone who can't code? Again, an example of a hackathon where this has happened would be great. Besmirching the name of hackathons in general is wrong. As for hacker mansions, the post you linked to…
You can be taken advantage of simply by participating. Hackathons that are tacked on to events are a great example: they're simply a way to sell more tickets. I've been guilty of this in the past on shows we've done (Twitter's Chirp conf, etc). Can good things happen at these hackathons? You bet. That doesn't mean Developers shouldn't be careful though. As for "20-hour days", that's just a number you've thrown out. W…
Living in a hacker mansion right now, I can guarantee you that isn't the case.
Our hacker mansion is filled with people working on different companies, at different stages (some funded, some not, some with customers, some without, etc.), and all of whom add something interesting and different to the diversity of the house. I take _at least_ 1 day a week off, often two. But frankly, sometimes others have to tell me to, since I love what I'm doing.
In short, hacker mansions can work out great if the people there are vetted, smart, passionate, and okay with having social lives. If you get together a group of people who are only going to work 24/7, guess what, they'll work together and burn out together. That's not the house we built.
Furthermore, I get to hang out with deer and wild turkeys while I relax in an enormous house with killer amenities; I wouldn't have the money to pay for that myself. I code and run my business mostly from our shared office space in Palo Alto.
(Full disclosure: this is a separate and entirely different hacker house from the one ryancarson is talking about, but a hacker house nonetheless.)
Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can be taken advantage of simply by participating. Hackathons that are tacked on to events are a great example: they're simply a way to sell more tickets. I've been guilty of this in the past on shows we've done (Twitter's Chirp conf, etc). Can good things happen at these hackathons? You bet. That doesn't mean Developers shouldn't be careful though. As for "20-hour days", that's just a number you've thrown out. W…
Living in a hacker mansion right now, I can guarantee you that isn't the case. Our hacker mansion is filled with people working on different companies, at different stages (some funded, some not, some with customers, some without, etc.), and all of whom add something interesting and different to the diversity of the house. I take _at least_ 1 day a week off, often two. But frankly, sometimes others have to tell me to…
ok, ok. but hacker mansion? I mean, seriously...
Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
You've been going to the wrong hackathons then. If you look hard enough you'll find some where you don't need to sign anything, and if you can't find any, start planning one.
And that is what this post is about. Looking hard enough.
In my experience it's the other way around. None of the hackathons I've been to in the UK have asked for rights. I'm sure if you looked you could find one, but clearly most aren't stupid enough to try.
Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm confused. Do people pay to attend hackathons? I can understand a contribution to costs (ie for pizza etc) if there are no sponsors but paying seems odd. I've run one hackathon myself and it most of the feedback I got was quite positive. Off the top of my head, the things that people liked were; the chance to meet/work with new folks in a low-risk way, to try out some new tech/language/framework that they'd never…
Event organizers often attach a hackathon to their show in order to sell more tickets.
You say that several times, but the only time I've seen that it worked out the other way around. The conference had twice as many attendees as the hackathon; it was clear what more people were interested in. I realise one data-point is not proof, but you also haven't produced anything to back up your assertion.
Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#68Agree with Ryan. And besides, what good can possibly come from say 48 hours of caffeine-fueled chasing of shiny dangling objects. That's not how you make software
That's not how you make finished, polished, robust software, it's true.
Is it how you try out an idea, play with something new, experiment with a really rough prototype and get instant feedback? Yes.
Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#69People are comfortable when others in their class assume the chronology of traditional employment. In the office, nine to five Monday through Friday, drinks after work on Thirsty Thursday, see you on Monday again. That's called career stagnation and threatens no one, hence it's widely accepted.
The way out of stagnation is to develop methodologies and processes that take advantage of the inherent weaknesses of the stagnated. Rooming a bunch of guys together or maxing out on Red Bull isn't the answer. Finding smart, dedicated and talented people to work with and avoiding the bozos is.
Re: I’m tired of the opportunists and their hackathons
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
Living in a hacker mansion right now, I can guarantee you that isn't the case. Our hacker mansion is filled with people working on different companies, at different stages (some funded, some not, some with customers, some without, etc.), and all of whom add something interesting and different to the diversity of the house. I take _at least_ 1 day a week off, often two. But frankly, sometimes others have to tell me to…
ok, ok. but hacker mansion ? I mean, seriously...
Fair. I don't like the term either, but it was the OP's and I decided to use it. :)