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So you wanna de-bog yourself

experimental-history.com

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Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#61

Post by gr8r »

swatcoder wrote: post #37

Ironically, the root of most "bogging" is thinking too much instead of just doing things that need doing or that ripely present themselves. The author has reflected so much that they've created a bespoke system of abstract beliefs with catchy names and various example cases that they can summarize into a 5000 word essay and probably even extend into a book. For a writer, that's a sneaky but effective way to do their…

The blog author does well to id/categorize the issues. People need a way to quantize+act on the issues - various systems exist for that. Key is to feel progress (on a particular direction/plan or at least in hindsight).

Ideas that track such progress:

--

1-3 high quality decisions per week (credits to Bezos, tho he does 1-3 per day).

--

1-2 important/not-urgent tasks per week.

1-2 small, not-important/(semi-)urgent tasks per day - these are also a form of "toothbrushing" that each adult has to do.

--

Bullet journal works well for both.

Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#62

Post by darkclouds »

gr8r wrote: post #61
swatcoder wrote: post #37

Ironically, the root of most "bogging" is thinking too much instead of just doing things that need doing or that ripely present themselves. The author has reflected so much that they've created a bespoke system of abstract beliefs with catchy names and various example cases that they can summarize into a 5000 word essay and probably even extend into a book. For a writer, that's a sneaky but effective way to do their…

The blog author does well to id/categorize the issues. People need a way to quantize+act on the issues - various systems exist for that. Key is to feel progress (on a particular direction/plan or at least in hindsight). Ideas that track such progress: -- 1-3 high quality decisions per week (credits to Bezos, tho he does 1-3 per day). -- 1-2 important/not-urgent tasks per week. 1-2 small, not-important/(semi-)urgent t…

[dead]

Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#63

Post by rzzzt »

digging wrote: post #26
hailmac wrote: post #13

Functionally not that different from a listicle - and at least those aren't so concerned with sounding smart

Well, then how would you turn this into a listicle? "17 ways you get stuck in a bog (in 3 categories) (and also: what is a bog) (and also: what it means to get unstuck from the bog)" Seems a pretty shit listicle; maybe it should be a full article :)

Number 15 will bog you!

Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#64

Post by swatcoder »

robocat wrote: post #58
swatcoder wrote: post #37

Ironically, the root of most "bogging" is thinking too much instead of just doing things that need doing or that ripely present themselves. The author has reflected so much that they've created a bespoke system of abstract beliefs with catchy names and various example cases that they can summarize into a 5000 word essay and probably even extend into a book. For a writer, that's a sneaky but effective way to do their…

> they've created a bespoke system of abstract beliefs swatcoder, can you please tell me how you particularly manage to learn from your mistakes? Some people create personal theories of how the world works, and then put their theories into action : A successful example is Charlie Munger and heres his talk explaining some of his excellent theories: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv7sLrON7QY Some people overthink things…

Navigating the world comfortably involves a balance of contemplation and action.

As I tried to allude in my comment, most people here, myself included, are already heavily biased towards the former. We train ourselves to think deliberately and rationally, breaking down challenges into components, using and inventing abstract symbols and operations to get from where we are to where we need to be. It's our profession in many cases, and often we were called to that profession because we've got some natural inclination to approach the world that way.

And it's valuable! I don't know that I could work on hard problems or take sound actions on some of the biggest and most impactful matters in my life without that. I value that I'm good at it, and practiced in it, and (like the author) think there's value in sharing the fruit of that work with others.

I did exactly that in my original comment and I'm doing it again here.

What I'm expressing is not a general critique against intellectualizing. It's cautionary advice that -- for many of the people here -- they (specifically) may experience more benefit resisting the urge to intellectualize rather than indulging in it.

It's not anti-intellectual, nor is it especially novel.

You can find comparable encouragement in both "Eastern" and "Western" traditions and from countless modern synthesizers of these traditions (Alan Watts, Werner Erhard, etc), who encourage brainy "bogged" intellectuals to just "bonk" themselves and stop expecting more thought and analysis to be the road away from their problems.

In many cases, it's the intellectualizing itself that invents/perpetuates problems that simply cease to be if one can practice simply acting.

Some people need the opposite advice, but few of them are going to be reading these comments in the first place and generally have different complaints than being stuck in s "bog".

Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#65

Post by cgriswald »

Regarding “declining the dragon”: In my case “doing the brave thing” doesn’t feel good. It is the moment of greatest suffering and is usually followed by some useless anxiety that takes some time to dissipate. That’s why I’m avoiding it. It is only by recognizing that the suffering will end only after doing the brave thing that I can challenge the dragon.

Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#66

Post by mekoka »

swatcoder wrote: post #37

Ironically, the root of most "bogging" is thinking too much instead of just doing things that need doing or that ripely present themselves. The author has reflected so much that they've created a bespoke system of abstract beliefs with catchy names and various example cases that they can summarize into a 5000 word essay and probably even extend into a book. For a writer, that's a sneaky but effective way to do their…

The article all throughout points to the same root cause you point to. It clearly presents a mirror where we can see reflected all the stories we often fabricate to trap ourselves. Perhaps the author created a system. But I saw it rather as a device to better bring to awareness common but elusive mental patterns that keep us stuck. Although I'd agree with you that intellectualizing is often part of the problem, how do you then treat a disease, if the only medium available to administer the medicine is also the cause of the disease? How do you tell people that their mind is the reason they suffer without telling them?

Even your own comment, as valuable as it is for pointing it out, feeds exactly the same beast that it accuses the article of feeding. That's the real irony.

Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#67

Post by weregiraffe »

barfbagginus wrote: post #39

First, debog your blog by removing the enshittware Second, start working to deconstruct capitalism and the state Tada, u no longer feel bogged

>Second, start working to deconstruct capitalism and the state

Or just kill yourself, it will achieve the same result, but faster.

Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#68

Post by robocat »

swatcoder wrote: post #64
robocat wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they've created a bespoke system of abstract beliefs swatcoder, can you please tell me how you particularly manage to learn from your mistakes? Some people create personal theories of how the world works, and then put their theories into action : A successful example is Charlie Munger and heres his talk explaining some of his excellent theories: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv7sLrON7QY Some people overthink things…

Navigating the world comfortably involves a balance of contemplation and action. As I tried to allude in my comment, most people here, myself included, are already heavily biased towards the former. We train ourselves to think deliberately and rationally, breaking down challenges into components, using and inventing abstract symbols and operations to get from where we are to where we need to be. It's our profession i…

It's difficult alright.

My father is very academic and he tends to start projects but not finish them. I also recognise the same fault in myself. But I've fought it hard and won a few times with some long-term successes (using a variety of personal strategies to avoid my unproductive tendencies).

We have many concepts related to what you are saying: analysis-paralysis, productivity porn, ivory tower, etcetera, etcetera.

I find the fields of psychology and philosophy are mostly tar-fields of unactionable thinking. Unfortunately I also find them interesting!

Finding the gems in the tar is hard, but Adam seems to find a few of them.

Here's another article of Adam's that seems relevant: https://www.experimental-history.com/p/excuse-me-but-why-are...

Re: So you wanna de-bog yourself

#69

Post by fellowniusmonk »

veltas wrote: post #38

> And while many religions teach that God intervenes in human affairs, none of them, as far as I know, believe that he responds to whining. (Would you worship a god who does miracles if you just annoy him enough?) It's not exactly as you say but it's roughly how I interpreted the parable of the unjust judge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Unjust_Judge

That parable came to mind immediately. There is in fact a god that labels unanswered nagging as acting unjust. A lifetime ago in seminary I knew a guy who rage quit after spending months contemplating the implications of that passage and observations about how common it is to see others unanswered prayer. Don't know what happened to him but he would just mutter that his beliefs didn't matter since "jesus defacto makes the claim he is unjust and defeats himself", the problem of suffering indeed.
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