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The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

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Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#61

Post by shermantanktop »

dumbo-octopus wrote: post #51
mikepurvis wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, China has 45,000 kilometers of HSR and the US has zero. So I'm not saying that taking people's houses to build public infrastructure is always the right thing to do, but there's a case to be made for a more balanced view than just "never". (Also China is a huge, spread out place just like the US, so miss me with those arguments about that being the reason passenger rail doesn't work here.)

The case you've presented is "China does it, so we should too", which is not all that strong of an argument.

Yes, the strawman version of the case is not strong, and of course plays on the fear of possible unspecified other things we would do if we copied China as a general approach.

But what about the steelman version of the case? I think it's a lot stronger.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#62

Post by adrianmonk »

spxneo wrote: post #27

Megaregions is nothing new but lately seem to be a testing the waters for an independent Texas state. I feel like articles like this is mentally preparing the American public for a potential secession states forming post-election.

It's true that some Texans like to talk about secession. However, there's very little overlap between those people and Rice University faculty.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#63

Post by f6v »

sarchertech wrote: post #32
tensor wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely not true. Europes high speed trains are far far faster than driving. For example, Rome to Milan via italo is 3h - 3h 40min while driving is 6h. Even the "normal high speed" train is only ~5h. Similarly Marseille to Paris is only 3.5h by train while driving is almost 8h. It entirely depends on your source and destination. Between major economic hubs train is usually faster than driving, and as you c…

The OP said “unless you have exceptionally fast rail” and was talking door to door. When you add in getting to the station, waiting on a train to arrive, and getting from the station to your destination, the average speed of the train does need to be a good deal faster.

For me “exceptionally fast” is maglev. 200 km/h train is normal at this point.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#64

Post by reaperman »

mikepurvis wrote: post #31
basil-rash wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rephrased, Texans think the rights of private land owners matter more than the latest politician’s talking points. The people downvoting this have clearly never had government agents steal anything from them. Or believe that when they do, it’s always “for the greater good”.

I mean, China has 45,000 kilometers of HSR and the US has zero. So I'm not saying that taking people's houses to build public infrastructure is always the right thing to do, but there's a case to be made for a more balanced view than just "never". (Also China is a huge, spread out place just like the US, so miss me with those arguments about that being the reason passenger rail doesn't work here.)

If people whose houses were taken were given an amount of money that allowed them to maintain their standard of living somewhere else, I'd have no issue with increased use of eminent domain. Too often we do see it used in the poorest neighborhoods where people are given some kind of "market price" for their home which isn't enough to buy any other home nearby.

But even without this, the cost to build public transportation in the USA is absolutely insane. The latest figures for light rail in Houston indicate it costs $126 million per mile to build. Houston's "inner loop" (most of the densest housing, central Houston area) is 9 miles by 11 miles, and accounts for just 15% of the city of Houston's land area, or So at $150M per mile it would cost $50 billion to build this just for the inner loop, or $330 billion for the entire city of Houston, or $5 trillion for the Houston metropolitan area. Houston's budget last year was $6 billion, and the GDP of Houston metropolitan area is $513 billion/year.

Inner loop: 96 mi^2, 450,000 people

Houston city: 665 mi^2, 2.3M people

Houston metro: 10,062 mi^2, 7.2M people

Granted, if this was built for the inner loop of Houston, the density of both residential and office space would shoot up immensely. People would love to be able to genuinely get around without a car, and right now vehicle congestion is the #1 thing limiting most inner-loop neighborhoods from expanding any more.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#65

Post by dumbo-octopus »

shermantanktop wrote: post #61
dumbo-octopus wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The case you've presented is "China does it, so we should too", which is not all that strong of an argument.

Yes, the strawman version of the case is not strong, and of course plays on the fear of possible unspecified other things we would do if we copied China as a general approach. But what about the steelman version of the case? I think it's a lot stronger.

What is the steelman you envision?

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#66

Post by dwaltrip »

basil-rash wrote: post #12
albrewer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A plan to connect Houston to Dallas with a bullet train has been grinding its way along for years now[0]. Since Texas is loath to use eminent domain, the planning phase has been stalled for a loooong time. [0]: https://www.texascentral.com/project/ Edit: Whoops, wrong project. Still, the plans are there, we just need willing politicians.

Rephrased, Texans think the rights of private land owners matter more than the latest politician’s talking points. The people downvoting this have clearly never had government agents steal anything from them. Or believe that when they do, it’s always “for the greater good”.

How do you the weigh the transportation rights of many against the property rights of one?

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#67

Post by dumbo-octopus »

dashundchen wrote: post #56
dumbo-octopus wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tragedy of the commons situation - you might be able to buy 90% of the land for a "reasonable price" (which is hard to define - depending on the type of land use, the value of the owner's entire plot would change significantly by having a train going by every day, sometimes greater sometimes lesser), but if the remaining 10% don't play ball you can't have the train. So the government is in a position of "we'll…

> So the government is in a position of "we'll give you X for this, but if you don't agree we'll just take it from you", which is a... non-Texan position for government to be in, to say the least. Texas government doesn't seem to have that reservation when it comes to highway expansions within cities, that's for sure.

Good point. But highway expansions have localized benefits in ways trains don't. Everyone "knows" that another lane would fix everything on their daily commute, so amassing the political capital to make it happen isn't too hard. But a train to connect distant region X to distant region Y, by taking land from folks who hardly ever make that trip anyways? Harder sell.

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#68

Post by readthenotes1 »

NewJazz wrote: post #39
ryandrake wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a minor nitpick with the shapes. There is a lot of wide-open nothingness under these "mega" region shapes. Washington DC to Boston should be more of a long rectangle, as the rest of upstate PA and NY are basically empty woods. Most of the region south of Orlando are mangroves and swamp. The NorCal one should be a line from SF to San Jose. Although Sacramento is growing, it's quite distinct from the bay area, a…

Shhh don't think this hard about it, the concept will fall apart and we won't be able to salivate over our lovely triangle!

And the new book!

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#69

Post by gregw2 »

NewJazz wrote: post #50
comicjk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Texas is not going to secede. In the 2020 election, the vote was 52:46 between Trump and Biden, meaning almost half the state supported the overall national winner. Compare this to the actual secession crisis election in 1860, where the vote was 75:24 against the pro-Union candidate, with Lincoln not even on the ballot in the state.

Plus seceding would probably hand control of the House over to Democrats. (Oh how the tables have toppled).

Rather than succeeding, perhaps Texas could split into 5 and get 10 senators per their annexation agreement to join the US? :

https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/annexation/march1845.h...

"Third. New States, of convenient size, not exceeding four in number, in addition to said State of Texas, and having sufficient population, may hereafter, by the consent of said State, be formed out of the territory thereof, which shall be entitled to admission under the provisions of the federal constitution. "

(This is Texas trivia for mutual amusement, not a serious suggestion.)

Re: The Texas Triangle: A rising megaregion unlike all others (2021)

#70

Post by [deleted] »

basil-rash wrote: post #12
albrewer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A plan to connect Houston to Dallas with a bullet train has been grinding its way along for years now[0]. Since Texas is loath to use eminent domain, the planning phase has been stalled for a loooong time. [0]: https://www.texascentral.com/project/ Edit: Whoops, wrong project. Still, the plans are there, we just need willing politicians.

Rephrased, Texans think the rights of private land owners matter more than the latest politician’s talking points. The people downvoting this have clearly never had government agents steal anything from them. Or believe that when they do, it’s always “for the greater good”.

[deleted]
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