Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Thoughts on Vision Pro

andrewhart.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 185 posts

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#61

Post by PaulHoule »

kfarr wrote: post #21
btown wrote: post #7

> The biggest innovation with Vision Pro is visionOS. visionOS provides native app frameworks, so developers can build apps for it. That sounds ridiculously obvious, and yet its something Meta have failed to offer for years. Every app on Quest has to reinvent how buttons work, how a scroll view works, how far away from the user the content should be etc.. and every app works differently. On visionOS, all of this is h…

I agree that Meta has tried but their solution is really completely different than a more traditional OS UI. Meta provides low level convenience functions SDK for the various native app development frameworks (mostly Unity and Unreal) to access the hardware and facilitate common movements, but the actual UI implementation is up to the app author resulting in a helter skelter hodge podge of varying UI from app to app.…

With a total of 10 buttons on the controller it's a (usually) minor annoyance that one app chooses to use one button to choose an action and another chooses a different button. Sometimes it can be really frustrating to try a bunch of buttons and see what works. I've put quite a few people through the AR demo that shipped with the Quest 3 and noticed that VR-naive people vary a lot in how quickly they figure out the idea that you can use a controller to shoot a gun.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#62

Post by PaulHoule »

IshKebab wrote: post #16
btown wrote: post #7

> The biggest innovation with Vision Pro is visionOS. visionOS provides native app frameworks, so developers can build apps for it. That sounds ridiculously obvious, and yet its something Meta have failed to offer for years. Every app on Quest has to reinvent how buttons work, how a scroll view works, how far away from the user the content should be etc.. and every app works differently. On visionOS, all of this is h…

Because apps on Quest are universally games, and those pretty much never use standard controls. They don't even all use the same engine, so Meta would have to provide a UE SDK, a Unity SDK, etc. I never felt this was remotely an issue with the Quest, and more than it is with desktop games.

It's annoying as hell for applications like Immersed and for media players. If every app had a different way to position windows and the UI was good in 50% of them it would be one thing but every app I've seen with floating windows is terribly awkward, although anybody can think up a number of alternatives that ought to work better.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#63

Post by Ringz »

crummy wrote: post #59
FumblingBear wrote: post #50

One of the most important and key points I hope Apple iterates on in an upcoming version is some type of universal undo action. It's immensely frustrating to be watching a video in the photos app and swipe a tiny bit wrong only to lose all current progress in the video even after you swipe back. Even scrubbing controls for long videos (1+ hours) can be super finnicky and it's tough to select accurately. The tradition…

The gesture could be a fist clench, naturally occurring when you angrily realise you've deleted the wrong thing.

You mean like this https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/arthurs-fist ?

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#64

Post by imzadi »

causi wrote: post #54
archagon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also feel like the lack of precise/physical controls is going to make gaming a non-starter. Which is really the main reason I’m excited about VR in the first place.

Owning a Rift and a Quest 2 has pretty much convinced me I'll never be into VR. VR makes for incredible immersion but, for me, terrible gaming. Instead of putting the cool stuff from games into reality, it puts the worst parts of reality into my games. Instead of walking and crouching with a touch of a finger, now I have to walk and crouch. To look behind me I have to actually turn around. Instead of everything being…

I'm a bit of a VR enthusiast. I have 8 headsets (DK1, Quest 1, Quest 2, Oculus Go, Vive Pro 2, HP Reverb G2, Pico 4, Pimax Crystal). I will easily spend 2 - 6 hours a day in VR. That said, I just refuse to play any game with a stupid movement system. If I can't use my control to move around, I am not going to play the game. It's great to have those options for people who want them, but when a game tries to force me to walk in my personal space or physically turn, they are going to lose me. I don't have the balance to do that stuff.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#65

Post by Rinzler89 »

ramesh31 wrote: post #60
Rinzler89 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>expensive niche gaming peripherals GPUs were also called exactly that in the early to mid 90s and now they're a trillion dollar industry so maybe keep an open mind and not be so set in your ways on something so new.

>GPUs were also called exactly that in the early to mid 90s and now they're a trillion dollar industry Yes, and they remained exactly that until a new use case opened up in the last 5 years that average people found highly valuable. Nvidia did not become a trillion dollar company on the back of PC gamer sales. It was a fundamental shift in technology where their hardware/software was well positioned to take advantage…

>Yes, and they remained exactly that until a new use case opened up in the last 5 years that average people found highly valuable.

Yes, they were a multi dozen billion dollar gaming company before, not a multi trillion dollar AI one today. They were hardly swimming in poverty on the backs of gamers were they.

>Nvidia did not become a trillion dollar company on the back of PC gamer sales.

The video gaming industry is one of the most lucrative ones to date, bringing more money yearly than movies and music combined according to PWC.

Apple not taking active part in that would be stupid.

> what Apple and Meta are banking on for AR vs. VR.

For what? That killer AR/VR app we've been waiting for for the past 5-7 years to show up any day now?

The lackluster sales of headsets of any kind, especially Apple's overpriced ones, proves the average joe doesn't want headsets strapped to their faces all day. They'd much rather spend the day staring at their phones but that market is already saturated and stagnant when the current iPhone looks and does the same things as the iPhone from 4 years ago and the EU is gonna crack you walled garden.

AR could have a future once it takes the shape of a sleek pair of raybans like in Iron Man, not a 1kg headset strapped to your face with a clunky corded power brick in your pocket. But considering recent semiconductor and battery tech progress, we're very very far away from that future becoming a reality.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#66

Post by Eugr »

taeric wrote: post #45

I'm still very curious exactly what people had in mind for this. Like, from all reports, it is a very good VR headset. But... what do people think they will use a VR headset for? Heck, the PS5 VR headset seems to be having trouble selling, and it is very good at what it is designed for. Anyone buying the PSVR2 knows they are getting it to play games. Solo games, at that. Yes, you can do a party mode for Beat Saber an…

It's a very good XR headset. My primary use is to use it as a portable display, so I'm not chained to my desk all day. Also great for travel. Great to watch movies too.

Since it runs most iPad apps, it can be used for some light productivity workflows even without a Mac. You can use Bluetooth keyboard if you need to type a lot, but the virtual keyboard is surprisingly decent for quick replies.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#67

Post by LordDragonfang »

leetharris wrote: post #32

I owned one and this article is perfectly accurate. This guy hit the nail on the head on everything. Passthrough is massively oversold, even if it's technically impressive. They set expectations way too high. The comfort is the #1 reason I don't own a Vision Pro anymore. I feel exactly as the author put it, "relieved," when I take it off. I feel significantly more disconnected from my family when I have it on because…

>Passthrough is massively oversold, even if it's technically impressive. They set expectations way too high.

As a Vision Pro owner, kinda, but kinda not?

I have a really low-power glasses prescription (-1/-1.5) and I've come to the conclusion that everyone saying this has the priviledge of being born with perfect (irl) vision. It's intentionally a little bit out of focus to obscure the screen door effect, which I understand might be disorienting to people who've never had to wear glasses.

But taking that into account, it's incredibly clear. If you've used any other pass through, it's night and day. I will frequently put on my headset having forgotten that the cover is on, and when I take it off my brain genuinely reads that as uncovering a transparent lens. The slightly reduced HDR, slight desaturation, and almost imperceptible visual snow all added up still don't detract enough from that to say it is not close to "lifelike".

It's not perfect, but it's incredibly close - and probably better than a good chunk of the population's uncorrected vision.

I mean, the comparison images in the article almost make the point for me. The left image, when adjusted for brightness/contrast (which the human vision system does automatically absent other stimulus, e.g. when all you can see is the headset) has a greater resemblance to what a cloudy day looks like IRL compared to the completely oversaturated, amateurly HDR'd image on the right.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#69

Post by btown »

AlphaSite wrote: post #24
btown wrote: post #7

> The biggest innovation with Vision Pro is visionOS. visionOS provides native app frameworks, so developers can build apps for it. That sounds ridiculously obvious, and yet its something Meta have failed to offer for years. Every app on Quest has to reinvent how buttons work, how a scroll view works, how far away from the user the content should be etc.. and every app works differently. On visionOS, all of this is h…

I think this is inevitable when you look at the original team at oculus, there were a lot of gaming folks (John Carmack was their CTO!) and I have no doubt that lives on in the culture today, for better or worse. I doubt a UI toolkit or standard OS primitives were even on their radar.

From what I've heard, they've just recently elevated some really talented leaders who understand the interplay between the gaming world and line-of-business-app needs, so I'm hopeful they're moving in the right direction!

But, historically, it was a misstep not to build these kinds of developer tools and design systems the moment https://forwork.meta.com/quest/business-subscription/ became a glimmer in their eye.

Re: Thoughts on Vision Pro

#70

Post by threeseed »

wilsonnb3 wrote: post #47
threeseed wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple supports third party controllers they just don’t provide any. Which is the ideal balance since they are an inconvenience if you have a keyboard/mouse in front of you and are using the Vision Pro as a replacement for multiple monitors. After all not everyone is using it for gaming or entertainment.

They support Xbox and PlayStation controllers, which are fine for 2d gaming in a floating window, but they don’t support VR controllers like the Quest or PSVR

Apple doesn’t support those specific controllers.

But i’ve not seen anything preventing third parties from supporting their own controllers in games over Bluetooth.

Post reply on HN