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The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

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Re: The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

#61

Post by m3kw9 »

jmyeet wrote: post #52

So I have three thoughts about this. The first is cell specialization, particularly neurons. It seems like nature really came up with a universal neuron. There aren't neurons for eyesight vs thinking, etc. They've experimented with this on frogs where they've reweired the optic nerve to a different part ofd the brain and the frog seems to see just fine. They've even added an eye and the frog seems to cope and use it…

My one thought is that at the atomic level it is also “doing calculations” where by the interactions were evolved over eons to work they way it does. It’s like 3 body problem X a million, but it actually have a purpose and not chaos. If you know what I’m getting at

Re: The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

#62

Post by swayvil »

Jensson wrote: post #58
swayvil wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So as we add layers of language, intelligence goes down. (Of course, to the residents of that layer, only the residents of that layer are intelligent. The depths are inscrutable chaos. And further layers are ... Tools? Toys?) Individuals are smart, committees are dumb. Fundamental particles must be geniuses.

> Individuals are smart, committees are dumb. But a human isn't a bunch of individual cells, it is a cell that cloned itself many times. Those cells all have the same base code and can thus become an intelligent committee.

So the more identical the committee members are, the smarter the committee?

Re: The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

#63

Post by the-mitr »

I was introduced to the idea of even single cells can exhibit "learning" and "culture" via John Bonner excellent book The Evolution of Culture in Animals.

Instead of thinking in terms of a discontinuity between animals or putting humans categorically different, Bonner builds this idea of a continuum instead for both culture and learning. Of course there are differences,

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691023731/th...

This post of course goes deep in the rabbit hole so to speak.

Re: The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

#64

Post by tempaway112751 »

bell-cot wrote: post #26

On the one hand, this is extremely cool science. OTOH, English really needs another word, meaning "like intelligence, but it could be simulated by an analog computer with a good handful of of discrete components".

"like intelligence, but it could be simulated by an analog computer with a good handful of of discrete components"

dude, I am an analog computer with a good handful of discrete components and I'm definitely intelligent

Re: The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

#65

Post by prmph »

beders wrote: post #8
swader999 wrote: post #4

Incredible to think how something this intricate with so many interdependent parts and integrated systems could have evolved.

I know. But this is very well understood and researched. All it requires is mutations, time and selection pressure. The Blind Watchmaker is still a good read.

So if a monkeys bangs on keys forever it will eventually produce Shakespeare? I'm quite skeptical

Re: The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

#66

Post by Jensson »

swayvil wrote: post #62
Jensson wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Individuals are smart, committees are dumb. But a human isn't a bunch of individual cells, it is a cell that cloned itself many times. Those cells all have the same base code and can thus become an intelligent committee.

So the more identical the committee members are, the smarter the committee?

At least a committee of 10 identical members wont be dumber than a single member most of the time. A committee of clones is just scaling up compute in order to solve larger problems. Imagine if you could clone yourself with your knowledge and mental state, much more useful than trying to cooperate with another human.

Re: The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

#67

Post by swayvil »

Jensson wrote: post #66
swayvil wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the more identical the committee members are, the smarter the committee?

At least a committee of 10 identical members wont be dumber than a single member most of the time. A committee of clones is just scaling up compute in order to solve larger problems. Imagine if you could clone yourself with your knowledge and mental state, much more useful than trying to cooperate with another human.

But the committee-thinking is still constrained by the language. Any committee-thoughts must be coarser and slower than the member thoughts.

We're trading depth for breadth, or something like that.

Re: The baffling intelligence of a single cell: The story of E. coli chemotaxis

#69

Post by pmayrgundter »

If you do an accounting of all the organ functions, and then ask if the cell has this function independently, nothing is left out... but only if you allow that intelligence arises from the cells.

So I believe intelligence arises from the cells and is an essential function of life, not only an emergent phenomena. The organs serve as division of labor amongst the cells in community for what they are already originally capable of themselves.

More musings in this direction https://sites.google.com/site/pablomayrgundter/mind

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