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Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

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Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#61

He is attending the wrong library. Library Genesis is the way, now. And Library Sci-Hub. And I am only half-kidding.

I’m ok with library Sci-Hub, but less so with Library Genesis. Pirating books reduces the incentives for authors to write more books. Pirating academic articles won’t reduce academics’ incentives to write papers.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#62

And the outcome was ... ACM Transactions on Algorithms (TALG)[1][2] [1] https://home.cs.colorado.edu/~hal/s.pdf [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACM_Transactions_on_Algorithms

Yup:

> In 2003, the entire editorial board of the Journal of Algorithms resigned to start ACM Transactions on Algorithms with a different, lower-priced, not-for-profit publisher, at the suggestion of Journal of Algorithms founder Donald Knuth. The Journal of Algorithms continued under Elsevier with a new editorial board until October 2009, when it was discontinued.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsevier#Resignation_of_editor...

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#63
post #11

Sending a working person a 14 page letter about anything expecting them to read it is wild to me. Perhaps it's the quality of my writing but my personal experience is that even being way more concise, most people wouldn't care.

> Sending a working person a 14 page letter about anything expecting them to read it is wild to me.

You really cannot understand why Donald Knuth would expect the editorial board of The Journal of Algorithms to read his letter?

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#64
post #4

It's interesting to note that in the context of this letter about the Journal of Algorithms, that there is now an open-access journal called "Algorithms" which looks like it launched five years after this letter: https://www.mdpi.com/journal/algorithms

Take a look at the length of the "controversies" part of that publisher's wikipedia article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDPI#Evaluation_and_controvers...

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#65
post #50

He is attending the wrong library. Library Genesis is the way, now. And Library Sci-Hub. And I am only half-kidding.

That's honestly quite tragic as we don't evolve anywhere fast enough to not be hit by global depression as the digital solitude clashes with the innate human needs of real socialization.

You aren’t supposed to socialize at brick and mortar libraries.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#66
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you should take into account that you are not (one of) the most preeminent computer scientists in the world, right?

Do you listen longer when your best dairy cow moos?

I don’t know. Don’t cows moo constantly?

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#67

He is attending the wrong library. Library Genesis is the way, now. And Library Sci-Hub. And I am only half-kidding.

I’m ok with library Sci-Hub, but less so with Library Genesis. Pirating books reduces the incentives for authors to write more books. Pirating academic articles won’t reduce academics’ incentives to write papers.

Considering certain technical books range between 70 to 300 dollars per copy, and libraries are unable to afford them, it seems to me that the incentive system is already broken.

The publishers are very comfortable with the high prices they are able to charge the quite expensive American universities.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#68

Some rants from the foxhole. American Chemical Society is the one of the main publishers in molecular sciences. Researchers at Finnish universities haven't been able to access articles published after 2023 after failed negotiations [0], greatly hindering one's - and collectively the nation's - ability to progress in these fields. It's quite frustrating, shocking, and eye-opening to have this rug pulled beneath you. F…

I've recently resumed research I initially started with Indiana University (and stopped for life reasons). I've been out of academia since 1995.

Back then, I had the resources of Indiana University for support. Today, lacking institutional affiliation, I couldn't do research at all - the typical price per paper is $35 from publishers, which is on average something like $2 per page. And why not? They don't have competitors for any given paper, and papers are not fungible.

I'm not independently (or even dependently) wealthy, so I can only do this research using the shadow archives. And the irony of the situation is that the access I get through shadow archives is far, far better than what I had at Indiana University in 1995, where I had to physically go to the library and hope nobody had checked out their copy of a given book, and where I paid 10 cents a page for Xerox copies. (I recently went through my files and found every single article there in PDF online - and burned all the 10-cent pages I'd copied in the 90's. It was ... weird.)

Knuth's right (well, of course; he's Don Knuth, what did I expect?) - the commercial academic publishing industry is holding us all back.

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#69

He is attending the wrong library. Library Genesis is the way, now. And Library Sci-Hub. And I am only half-kidding.

I’m ok with library Sci-Hub, but less so with Library Genesis. Pirating books reduces the incentives for authors to write more books. Pirating academic articles won’t reduce academics’ incentives to write papers.

Does it? It seems complicated. Higher availability of books means more readers for a start. Large numbers of people don't read at all and therefore aren't even in the market for books. Then you have to consider the absurd length of copyright. How does an author receiving money for something they wrote 50 years ago incentivise them to write more? Even worse, how does a dead author's estate receiving money incentivise anyone to write anything?

Re: Don Knuth letter about libraries increasingly unable to afford prices (2003) [pdf]

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m ok with library Sci-Hub, but less so with Library Genesis. Pirating books reduces the incentives for authors to write more books. Pirating academic articles won’t reduce academics’ incentives to write papers.

Considering certain technical books range between 70 to 300 dollars per copy, and libraries are unable to afford them, it seems to me that the incentive system is already broken. The publishers are very comfortable with the high prices they are able to charge the quite expensive American universities.

In some academic fields, books are also just collections of technical papers on some topic, or one really long paper, which is probably not something to earn money from. I assume most are sold to libraries, similar to journals. Though Library Genesis also contains other, more commercial books.
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