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Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

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Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#61

Post by anentropic »

safety1st wrote: post #36
twowatches wrote: post #19

I'm fairly sure the cause of back pain is sitting at desks, not the position I'm sleeping in.

I'm skeptical that there's anything especially unhealthy about sitting at a desk even for long periods of time. What's more plausible to me is that back pain comes from having a weak back and it's more about what you're not doing, which is training your back muscles. Over the course of about a year, weight lifting eliminated a range of aches and pains I'd developed throughout adulthood, including back, wrist and knee…

Yeah I think it's exactly this.

A lot of people end up thinking it's about ergonomic chairs. An un-ergonomic chair will make things bad pretty quick, but supportive ergonomic chairs are part of the long term problem IMHO.

And deadlifts are not the only solution. I started out using just a backless stool and it helped a bit (can't slouch!), but what really sorted me out was using the "lumbar machine" at the gym for a couple of years. When Covid came along I couldn't go any more so I started doing "the plank" at home, that plus the "side plank" and some push ups have kept me going the last four years. And it's totally free and I can do them basically anywhere e.g. on holiday.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#62

Post by onetimeuse92304 »

For my entire life I slept in one of those postures ("the lookout"). I had a bunch of problems (pain in the chest, pain in the back, some problems with my knees not loaded symmetrically, my feet getting "extended" for quite a long time causing problems with Achilles). I also had a problem with restlessness -- these positions cannot be maintained for long without moving, I would be changing my position very frequently.

Couple of years ago I have injured my ACL and had to learn to sleep on my back. Now I am much happier sleeper. Now I generally do not move at all during night (I wake up exactly as I have fallen asleep and my sleep tracker tracks way less movement). All of the pains gone.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#63

Post by elric »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #49
looping8 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also feels a little strange in writing. Examples: "Figure Figure11 shows a mountain gorilla lying on the ground on his side without a pillow" - Of course it is without a pillow, it's a mountain gorilla! What is this clarification? "To start with, some Westerners have to hold on to a doorframe." - Would it not be better to say "you may have to hold on" or "newbies"? It is not like Westerners have some special physi…

> Of course it is without a pillow, it's a mountain gorilla! That doesn't follow at all. Gorillas are well known for their habit of making nests. Making pillows isn't difficult.

Indeed. Many animals build nests. It's not a skill unique to humans at all. Finding something comfortable to rest on isn't a particularly difficult skill to master.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#64

Post by virtualritz »

leoedin wrote: post #55
vasco wrote: post #44

> Forest dwellers and nomads suffer fewer musculoskeletal lesions than “civilised” people > I tried to carry out surveys to collect evidence but they were meaningless, as tribespeople give you the answer they think you want. Could they simply have higher thresholds for complaining?

They're also incredibly active compared to any "civilised" people. There's a lot of evidence that sedentary lifestyles are bad for bodies. Presumably they're also, on average, younger than "civilised" peoples. Life expectancy for an Amazonian Tribe was just 53 years. https://www.sbs.com.au/food/article/how-to-eat-like-an-amazo... Muscle and joint issues are a symptom of aging. If nobody's making it to 60, then aging…

This is probably because of child mortality etc.

I.e. the conclusion that people there don't usually live past 60 seems like a fallacy.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#65

Post by olalonde »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #49
looping8 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also feels a little strange in writing. Examples: "Figure Figure11 shows a mountain gorilla lying on the ground on his side without a pillow" - Of course it is without a pillow, it's a mountain gorilla! What is this clarification? "To start with, some Westerners have to hold on to a doorframe." - Would it not be better to say "you may have to hold on" or "newbies"? It is not like Westerners have some special physi…

> Of course it is without a pillow, it's a mountain gorilla! That doesn't follow at all. Gorillas are well known for their habit of making nests. Making pillows isn't difficult.

I'm a human and I don't think I'd be able to make a (comfortable) pillow...

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#66

Post by jawns »

begueradj wrote: post #54
FredrikMeyer wrote: post #7

I find this article quite insubstantial. He lists alternative sleeping positions, but no sources backing up the claim that "western sleeping positions" (whatever that is) are worse. Also only one citation, and that is to back up the claim that there are 200 primates. Nice pictures though - I feel happy that I can sit (relatively) comfortably in the squatting position (as an European).

As a North African, I instinctively understand and firmly believe everything mentioned in this article about sleeping is true. From my perspective, the way I see your comment is this: give me scientific evidence that walking is beneficial to my health. We lose our identity when we disconnect from Nature. I even read a post recently here in HN where it was said that "Urban humans have lost much of their ability to dig…

> I instinctively understand and firmly believe everything mentioned in this article about sleeping is true.

Well, yes, but that's a standard quality of B.S. It's plausible, and intuitive. When you actually start trying to prove it out, though, you discover it's wrong.

True, there is a category of "no duh" scientific findings, like walking is beneficial to one's health, that do align with our intuition. But where science really shines is when the evidence points to something counterintuitive.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#67

Post by pcrh »

Amazing demonstrations of casual racism in that article. It reads as if it was written in 1850 rather than 2000.

There's no plausible reason to suppose that Tibetans or "tribesmen" have more natural sleeping positions than "civilized" (i e. White) people.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#68

Post by Townley »

danw1979 wrote: post #51

I’m sure there are some great points in this paper but this bit of un-evidenced bit of speculation turned me off: > It has been noted that guide dogs working in towns breathe the same pollutants as humans yet do not have asthma. Could this be because when they lie on their chests the kickback from the upper ribs keeps the corresponding vertebrae mobile, allowing the sympathetic system to work efficiently? Or could it…

Also notable: some dogs do get asthma, and cats have asthma commonly

https://www.webmd.com/pets/cats/asthma-symptoms-cats

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#69

Post by dsalzman »

The interesting point of this article to me is not the positions but the sleeping surface. Due to my newborn I’ve been sleeping on the floor on a thin yoga mat for over three months and my back and joints feel great. The pressure from the hard ground is like stretching while you sleep. Took a few weeks to get used to it though.

Re: Instinctive Sleeping and Resting Postures (2000)

#70

Post by itronitron »

The text referencing Figure 2 seems to mistakenly swap the top and bottom images.

When the legs are in the reverse recovery position (fig (fig2,2, bottom), the penis lies on the lower thigh and is protected. In this position the Achilles tendon of the leading foot can be inserted in the gap between the big toe and the first lesser toe to help correct a bunion.

Note that the top picture in Figure 2 shows the Achilles tendon of the leading foot between the big toe and adjacent toe of the trailing foot. I would conclude then that the top position is actually the one that protects the penis.

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