Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS • Hacker News Board

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#61

Post by mythhabit » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 11:39 AM UTC

switch007 wrote: post #34

In reference to the EU legislating, Amazon will just seek/get revenue gains elsewhere. It won’t be immediate, it won’t be obvious, but it will happen. Take EU261, which caused issues for smaller airlines, leading to less competition, increased fares. There are also claims it’s affecting safety [0]. I’m not against EU261 per se, but it’s healthy to be critical of large institutions like the EU. People, I find, cheer a…

Before EU261, the passanger took on the risk for delays and cancelations mainly due to the operational performance of the airline. After, the airlines now directly take on some of that risk. I'm of the opinion, that if airlines did this well in general, or the industry had a reasonable solution in place, such regulation would not have been made in the first place.

So, if it caused issues for smaller airlines and generally increase in prices, is that not a clear indication that the smaller airlines do not have sufficiently capability to handle it, and that prices was too low?

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#62

Post by easton » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 12:00 PM UTC

ralphist wrote: post #59

mhitza wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can be resources created implicitly, even when using IaC tools. One example, create a lambda, without an explicit log group, one will be automatically created for you outside of the tracked state.

So the lambda function will survive, but billing will still go to zero when the lambda's last execution finishes, right?

The function would be destroyed (guessing running instances would finish their handlers and then no longer be accessible) but the log group it created would still be present, holding logs from the dead function.

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#63

Post by gtirloni » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 12:16 PM UTC

Looks like something they are being forced to do.

Otherwise, if they really cared about their customers, they'd just lower outgoing data transfer pricing at all times and not only when you're leaving.

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#64

Post by JackSlateur » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 12:16 PM UTC

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #30

usr1106 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So do we know how much are the egress costs for AWS? In other words how much AWS is overcharging? I guess they make every effort / creative bookkeeping trick to exaggerate their egress costs and it will take years until EU completes their investigation and fines them and more years until courts have had their final word.

https://blog.cloudflare.com/aws-egregious-egress contains a pretty good overview of Amazon’s margins.

Yes

You just have to believe that, on the scale on AWS, 1Mbps in Europe costs 0.08$ (includes the transit, the hardware, the people etc). This includes every networking parts : do not forget the switches and stuff : VPC are free, and intra-zone network is free. Someone must pay, so it is sane to assume that "someone" is partly cross-region, partly internet egress, partly cross-zone.

Don't forget the R&D that revolves around VPC, subnets, security groups, acl etc.

So, yes, 0.08$/Mbps. Known from an external source which is a (partly) competitor. Trust me, dude. This number is legit.

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#65

Post by acdha » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 12:32 PM UTC

usr1106 wrote: post #23

bnprks wrote: post #14

I hope this is just the start of egress fee changes in response to the European Data Act. Taking a look at other parts of the law's text [1], I think this change related to Article 25, but Article 34 section 2 is what really stands out to me: > Where a data processing service is being used in parallel with another data processing service, the providers of data processing services may impose data egress charges, but o…

So do we know how much are the egress costs for AWS? In other words how much AWS is overcharging? I guess they make every effort / creative bookkeeping trick to exaggerate their egress costs and it will take years until EU completes their investigation and fines them and more years until courts have had their final word.

The one to watch is https://www.cloudflare.com/bandwidth-alliance/

AWS could plausibly claim _some_ additional expense on their premium network offering (not full rate, of course, but some) for the additional monitoring and adjustment they do to adjust to peering conditions but none of that is plausible for other companies peering with them who provide the same services. If their customer uses Fastly or Cloudflare, they don’t need any additional cost to toss packets over the wall and let the other service worry about routing. I’d imagine those companies are making sure that the EU regulators know exactly how much they need to charge for that.

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#66

Post by makeitdouble » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 12:48 PM UTC

switch007 wrote: post #36

weikju wrote: post #4

> The waiver on data transfer out to the internet charges also follows the direction set by the European Data Act and is available to all AWS customers around the world and from any AWS Region. Thank you, EU, on behalf of the rest of the world

It’s way too early to thank them. Wait 5-10 years, see what effect it has on prices, competition etc

GCP, Azure and AWS have been here for more than 10 years, free to do almost whatever they want. Did the prices decrease and competions pop up everywhere ?

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#67

Post by deskamess » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 1:04 PM UTC

ralphist wrote: post #60

true_religion wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think terraform will recursively delete everything in your S3 bucket.

Iterate over all S3 buckets in your terraform files and add `force_destroy` to them [1], then apply and destroy. There could probably be an automated tool for this that wouldn't be too complex. [1] https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hashicorp/aws/latest...

Does that take care of deleting the files inside the bucket? That's an API call ($). Depending on the data that could be quite a bit.

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#68

Post by nerdjon » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 1:06 PM UTC

bnprks wrote: post #14

I hope this is just the start of egress fee changes in response to the European Data Act. Taking a look at other parts of the law's text [1], I think this change related to Article 25, but Article 34 section 2 is what really stands out to me: > Where a data processing service is being used in parallel with another data processing service, the providers of data processing services may impose data egress charges, but o…

My question (and maybe it is answered there but I don't want to read a full legal document to find it).

What exactly do they consider "costs"? Is it just the cost they pay an IP for data out or can it include maintenance, hardware, people, etc?

I am also curious if this will have any impact on the cost of services. Does AWS do any sort of thing where the higher egress costs offset the cost of services? Or ingress costs, or internal communication costs? Stuff that does cost AWS something to run in some form but could have been paid for by this.

It's a question I honestly don't know, so I am curious.

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#69

Post by bawolff » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 1:29 PM UTC

artwr wrote: post #7

One of the other question is whether you have to delete all data / close your account 60 days after you transfer out without fee: https://twitter.com/QuinnyPig/status/1765102310563500521 Probably obeying the letter of the European Data Act, but obviously not great if true.

> Probably obeying the letter of the European Data Act, but obviously not great if true.

Does it really matter? As long as they are upfront about the price and there is no vendor lock in, what's the big deal? AWS is overpriced - everyone knows that, but i don't think its morally wrong to be overpriced as long as you aren't deceptive about it.

Re: Free data transfer out to internet when moving out of AWS

#70

Post by OJFord » Wed, Mar 06, 2024, 1:29 PM UTC

foofie wrote: post #16

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #12

Isn’t this a bad faith interpretation of the EU law, by providing free egress when exiting AWS (and GCP)? The law mandates egress costs should either be free or not exceed the costs encountered by the cloud provider.

What do you mean "bad faith"? Can you elaborate?

You have an answer of why they think it applies in this case, but since it read to me like you were asking what the phrase itself meant (or in case it helps anyone else): it's most often used as 'arguing in bad faith' meaning wilfully misunderstanding the other party or just generally an insincere argument as a proxy or pretext for something else or with some ulterior motive.

So briefly in this case AWS does something which seems superficially good, but the real reason is to appease a law that it actually doesn't properly comply with. (Is the, not my, claim.) i.e. a good thing done in bad faith.