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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#61
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10% would be considered an extremely high death rate for soldiers involved in the fighting. Even 2.5% for healthcare workers is ridiculously high. Hamas based their operations where conventional rules of war prohibit fire. That makes comparing casualty rates incredibly difficult. (To my knowledge, nobody else has done this so comprehensively. Though given its success, I expect it to be emulated. Which unfortunately…

This is unfounded. I'm still waiting on a single shred of evidence to drop about the AP building from 2-3 years ago https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israe... > Which unfortunately means prohibitions on bombing hospitals, schools and places of worship are now obsolete. Even if Hamas was fighting from hospitals and schools that is not how this works. Israel would be required to give those schools…

Israel has ordered hospitals to evacuate, e.g.: https://healthpolicy-watch.news/who-calls-for-israel-to-resc...

I think you're generally wrong on the "they have not been doing" comment. Israel has been giving warnings, and those warnings were intentionally being ignored to maximize the damage to Israel's reputation. But if you have some comprehensive data here I'd be interested in seeing it.

From my observation the pattern has been Israel giving warnings/ordering evacuations with the response being "it can't be done" only to end with significantly more difficult conditions.

Israel did demand that the entirety of Northern Gaza be evacuated from civilians (including those "camps" you mention, more below, and including all those hospitals) which was again pushed back on as "impossible" or physically prevented by Hamas which in turn caused increased civilian casualty rates and the eventual almost full evacuation under significantly more difficult conditions.

The use of the terminology "refugee camps" is also confusing. Some of what the media refers to as "refugee camps" are permanent settlements, effectively cities, where the population consists of many 1948 refugees. Not what most people think about when they hear "refugee camps". As to why heavy bombs are used I'm not an expert but potentially to penetrate deeper and there might be other reasons.

All that said, I think it should be acknowledged that some of the methods Israel is using are likely to try and achieve some psychological advantage against the enemy. I don't think this that's necessarily a violation of international law given that warnings were given. It's within the realm of what I would call a military objective (demoralizing the enemy forces and destroying their infrastructure).

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#62
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All Hamas has to do is issue uniforms for fighters. Israel would probably even voluntarily foot the cost. But Hamas won't do it because of how much leverage civilians getting killed gets them.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-02-04/ty-article-opinio...

[deleted]

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#63
post #25

> Around 10% of Gaza's journalists have been killed versus 2.5% of healthcare workers. One possible explanation is that journalists have a much higher probability of being close to where the fighting is, than healthcare workers.

Quite a few died in their own homes.

Worth mentioning the IDF know where everyone in Gaza lives.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#64
Actually reading this article shows some heavy conjecture.

They talk about the existence of Pegasus software, and they talk about the fact that generically, it has been used in the world to track journalists.

They don't actually cite a single example of a Palestinian, much less a journalist, being tracked through Pegasus. Likewise, they say it "appears" that this data is then used for targeting but no indication as to what makes it appear that way.

The article is basically "spyware exists" - and the rest is pure speculation about how it could possibly be used but no evidence (mentioned) that it's used that way.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#65
post #50

[flagged]

[Citation needed]

> Numerous members of Al-Dahdouh's family have been killed by the Israeli military during the Israel–Hamas war. His wife, seven-year old daughter, and 15-year old son were killed in an Israeli airstrike on the Nuseirat refugee camp on 28 October 2023, in addition to eight of his other relatives. On 15 December 2023, while Al-Dahdouh and his cameraman Samer Abu Daqqa were covering the Haifa School airstrike in Khan Yunis, they were hit by an Israeli missile, injuring Dahdouh and fatally wounding Abu Daqqa. Despite the death of many family members and his injury, he quickly returned to reporting on the war after both incidents.[3] His son, journalist Hamza al-Dahdouh, was killed by an Israeli airstrike in Khan Younis on 7 January 2024,[4] and two of his nephews were killed in an airstrike the following day.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wael_Al-Dahdouh

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#66
post #32

For context, a total of 69 journalists were killed in WWII, 63 in the Vietnam war both of which lasted several years. As of today March 6th 2024, the Gaza invasion has left 86 journalists dead in less than 4 months. That is an amazingly high percentage for the expected mean in a conflict. Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/israel... https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/02/over-75-of-all-j…

That may be true but a couple things have changed since those very dated sample points. (1) Definition of journalist (2) quantity of journalists (3) willingness to be on the very front lines in order to get better stories (4) technology enabling journalists thus being able to be more dangerous spots. (5) speculation -> journalists who are using press credentials as cover

I'm neither way on the conflict but want to correct some of your arguments assumptions that lead your conclusion astray.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#68
post #32

For context, a total of 69 journalists were killed in WWII, 63 in the Vietnam war both of which lasted several years. As of today March 6th 2024, the Gaza invasion has left 86 journalists dead in less than 4 months. That is an amazingly high percentage for the expected mean in a conflict. Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/israel... https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/02/over-75-of-all-j…

If your using other wars as a comparison like this what was the journalist per capita and have you adjusted for the prewar ratio per capita also. This seems like ham fisted attempts at statistics otherwise

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#69
post #50

[flagged]

[Citation needed]

Is there irrefutable proof of it in the current conflict? Unless something leaks from the IDF, we'll never know. But there are well-respected news orgs and NGOs identifying patterns of it.

“CPJ is deeply alarmed by the pattern of journalists in Gaza reporting receiving threats, and subsequently, their family members being killed,” said CPJ Middle East and North Africa Program Coordinator Sherif Mansour. “The killing of the family members of journalists in Gaza is making it almost impossible for the journalists to continue reporting, as the risk now extends beyond them also to include their beloved ones.”

https://cpj.org/2023/12/father-of-al-jazeeras-anas-al-sharif...

And Reuters: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-strikes-kill-...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#70
post #32

For context, a total of 69 journalists were killed in WWII, 63 in the Vietnam war both of which lasted several years. As of today March 6th 2024, the Gaza invasion has left 86 journalists dead in less than 4 months. That is an amazingly high percentage for the expected mean in a conflict. Sources: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/interactive/2024/israel... https://www.icij.org/inside-icij/2024/02/over-75-of-all-j…

[flagged]
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