Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–69 of 69 posts

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#61

Post by lapcat »

tambourine_man wrote: post #60
lapcat wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, no one will answer “yes” to a direct question “do you want more restrictions”. I find this admission very interesting. When presented with direct evidence of paternalism, everyone rejects it. Of course. As they should. > Many, however, will concede that being more secure and stable is more important than side loading, if given a choice. I thought this reasoning was implied. Where exactly do you think the…

Yes, App review sucks, it's only slightly better than nothing. > I was asking for proof, which you still haven't provided. And won't, since that's not public information. The best anyone can do is show that it sells like hot cakes. Reliability doesn't come from sandboxing or notarization only. But from forbidden behavior, less rope for you to hang yourself with. I think that amounts to a much higher percentage of sal…

> And won't, since that's not public information.

> the precise amount is everyone's guess, of course.

When I asked "Do you have polls or other consumer research to back this claim?" you could have simply and honestly answered "No", saving us both a lot of wasted time and text.

> The best anyone can do is show that it sells like hot cakes.

This is a red herring. The fact that the iPhone sells, which everyone knows, doesn't explain why it sells.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#62

Post by VladTheImpalor »

tambourine_man wrote: post #60
lapcat wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Of course, no one will answer “yes” to a direct question “do you want more restrictions”. I find this admission very interesting. When presented with direct evidence of paternalism, everyone rejects it. Of course. As they should. > Many, however, will concede that being more secure and stable is more important than side loading, if given a choice. I thought this reasoning was implied. Where exactly do you think the…

Yes, App review sucks, it's only slightly better than nothing. > I was asking for proof, which you still haven't provided. And won't, since that's not public information. The best anyone can do is show that it sells like hot cakes. Reliability doesn't come from sandboxing or notarization only. But from forbidden behavior, less rope for you to hang yourself with. I think that amounts to a much higher percentage of sal…

You've spent a lot of time arguing yourself in circles. Unless you can show that it sells like hot cakes because it's locked down, your argument holds no water. It might sell because marketing, because nice hardware, because great camera, because peer pressure.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#63

Post by piva00 »

lancesells wrote: post #37
addicted wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a reversal of history. The iPhone released without an App Store. Their original plan was very clearly to limit it to web apps. Apple, including Steve Jobs, spent a lot of time and energy explaining why web apps were the best option. And then Apple realized, largely through apps developed for jailbroken phones which led to a lot of people jailbreaking their phones, that for iOS to really succeed they needed ap…

It's a symbiotic relationship like most things. Instagram, tiktok, Spotify, etc. would very likely not exist without the app store. I'm torn in all of this because I'm not much of a fan of either company.

Spotify existed before the App Store though.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#64

Post by tambourine_man »

VladTheImpalor wrote: post #62
tambourine_man wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, App review sucks, it's only slightly better than nothing. > I was asking for proof, which you still haven't provided. And won't, since that's not public information. The best anyone can do is show that it sells like hot cakes. Reliability doesn't come from sandboxing or notarization only. But from forbidden behavior, less rope for you to hang yourself with. I think that amounts to a much higher percentage of sal…

You've spent a lot of time arguing yourself in circles. Unless you can show that it sells like hot cakes because it's locked down, your argument holds no water. It might sell because marketing, because nice hardware, because great camera, because peer pressure.

The camera sensor is a commodity, lenses are limited by physics. UI has basically converged/standardized. The A series is 25% faster than the competition. Apple's marketing is great, but Samsung and Xiaomi are no slouch. Peer pressure alone would assume hordes of brain dead consumers, which is unlikely.

What is the other major differentiation the iPhone has to justify being among 7 of the 10 most sold phones?

You may choose to only make assertions given Tim Cook’s spreadsheets, or you can choose to infer based on the data we have. You can also skip this thread if you think that’s just idle speculation, of course.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#65

Post by tambourine_man »

jerojero wrote: post #42
tambourine_man wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, let people choose the other platform that already allows them just that. What some people may not understand is that a large percentage of Apple customers are buying iPhones because of those restrictions and not in spite of them.

This has always been such a funny argument to me. The "some" is carrying some much weight. Yeah there's a couple vocal apple users in hacker news that think a closed ecosystem is good, more private and secure, they trust Apple and they indeed have chosen the iPhone for this reason. But more likely than not, people choose iPhone because everyone has an iPhone. People choose iPhone because when both parents have iPhone…

> Because Samsung phones seem "complicated".

Exactly. And why is it so?

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#66

Post by tambourine_man »

lapcat wrote: post #61
tambourine_man wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, App review sucks, it's only slightly better than nothing. > I was asking for proof, which you still haven't provided. And won't, since that's not public information. The best anyone can do is show that it sells like hot cakes. Reliability doesn't come from sandboxing or notarization only. But from forbidden behavior, less rope for you to hang yourself with. I think that amounts to a much higher percentage of sal…

> And won't, since that's not public information. > the precise amount is everyone's guess, of course. When I asked "Do you have polls or other consumer research to back this claim?" you could have simply and honestly answered "No", saving us both a lot of wasted time and text. > The best anyone can do is show that it sells like hot cakes. This is a red herring. The fact that the iPhone sells, which everyone knows, d…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39601658

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#67

Post by lapcat »

tambourine_man wrote: post #66
lapcat wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And won't, since that's not public information. > the precise amount is everyone's guess, of course. When I asked "Do you have polls or other consumer research to back this claim?" you could have simply and honestly answered "No", saving us both a lot of wasted time and text. > The best anyone can do is show that it sells like hot cakes. This is a red herring. The fact that the iPhone sells, which everyone knows, d…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39601658

When I asked "Do you have polls or other consumer research to back this claim?" you could have simply and honestly answered "No", saving us both a lot of wasted time and text.

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#68

Post by ghusto »

tambourine_man wrote: post #50
addicted wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This can clearly be shown to be false. People said the exact same thing for decades for why they preferred Macs over Windows. The Mac was an extremely open ecosystem. That did not stop it from “just work”ing or “getting out of your way”.

The Mac “just works” compared to Windows, which is a low bar. Compared to iOS, the Mac is a complete mess, just ask any non technical user. There's a reason why AppStores are a huge success in the mobile world and why few people dared to install anything on PCs and Macs.

When I want to use Firefox with Kagi as the default search engine on Mac, it just works. Have you seen the crap you have to do on an iPhone to add Kagi to the Firefox skin of Webkit?

Re: The App Store, Spotify, and Europe's thriving digital music market

#69

Post by andreime »

tambourine_man wrote: post #56
andreime wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard this over and over and my follow-up question is never answered... What would change for those users? This is about ownership of your device, if you're OK with Apple's walled garden - that they apparently can change on any whims - nothing will be shoved down your throat. Please answer.

There are side effects to allowing third-party stores, or giving up on restrictions. It's a trade-off. There are advantage to both choices. I thought this was pretty obvious in my post. If Apple was the only viable platform, then absolutely, I don't want to live in a world where I can't hack with my devices. But when you have Android, I think it's actually better for the user that a more locked down platform also exi…

You didn't answer. You didn't even come close.

Also, "There are side effects to allowing third-party stores" - what is this bs??? Do I need to link to Steve Jobs presenting the iPhone saying iOS is based on MacOS? Have you use installed software on your Mac from outside the App Store?

Post reply on HN