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Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

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Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those 78% of shareholders believe that Elon having $56B MORE is a priority in their lives, then should just voluntarily give Elon their shares or send him cash.

Companies and shareholders meetings work a bit differently than what you suggest. Other than that, the grand majority of Tesla shareholders are quite happy with the financial state of the company and would like for Musk to continue leading the company and be compensated for it.

I realize that. But there is nothing stopping them from sending him money, if they think he deserves it.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies and shareholders meetings work a bit differently than what you suggest. Other than that, the grand majority of Tesla shareholders are quite happy with the financial state of the company and would like for Musk to continue leading the company and be compensated for it.

I realize that. But there is nothing stopping them from sending him money, if they think he deserves it.

They thought he deserved it, and voted to send him the money. Then this guy started stopping them.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#63
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's straightforward. The attorneys are arguing that because they have prevented what amounts to the embezzlement of $50b from Tesla and its shareholders, they are entitled to close to 10%. This is similar to SEC whistleblowers. > The Commission is authorized by Congress to provide monetary awards to eligible individuals who come forward with high-quality original information that leads to a Commission enforcement ac…

> prevented what amounts to the embezzlement How does it amount to embezzlement? I understand the SEC reward is for whistleblowing, but how is it whistleblowing if the information want publicly available via filings?

Elon packed the board with personal friends who would never in a million years turn down any compensation package he asked for. The extent of their relationship was not disclosed in public filings. It's reasonable for the shareholders to ask if maybe the money could have been better spent on R&D or a cheaper CEO than being shuttled off as personal funds for the CEO.

> Typical elements of the crime of embezzlement are the fraudulent conversion of the property of another person by the person who has lawful possession of the property.

You can read about the extent of the alleged fraud in the judgment, but it is clear that the board was nothing more than sycophants _not_ acting in the fiduciary interest of the shareholders.

https://courts.delaware.gov/Opinions/Download.aspx?id=359340

> The Proxy failed to disclose any of the Compensation Committee members’

> actual or potential conflicts with respect to Musk.747 In fact, the Proxy repeatedly

> described the members of the Compensation Committee as independent, stating:

> “The[] [Grant] discussions first took place among the members of the Compensation

> Committee . . . all of whom are independent directors;”748 and “[t]he independent

> members of the Board, led by the members of the Compensation Committee, spent

> more than six months designing [the Grant].”749 The Proxy’s introductory letter is

> “[f]rom the Independent Members of Tesla’s Board of Directors,” and the first four

> signatories are Compensation Committee members Gracias, Ehrenpreis, Denholm,

> and Buss.750 Notably, Gracias signed as “Lead Independent Director.”751

> The description of the Compensation Committee members as “independent”

> was decidedly untrue as to Gracias and proved untrue as to the remaining committee

> members.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#64
post #6

I am confused. These are the lawyers that sued Tesla and won, not Elon/Telsa's lawyers, and they want that sort of payout due to the cost savings to Tesla? If so, I wonder who funded the original lawsuit -- was that not enough -- or was this the idea all along?

"If so I wonder who funded the original lawsuit -- was that not enough -- or was this the idea all along?" The plaintiffs law firms "funded it" by working for free, on a contingency basis: if plaintiffs win, the law firms get paid for their work. They won. Now they seek payment for their work.

[deleted]

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#65
post #51
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

he s a shareholder too, no? net should be zero

An example with smaller numbers: Suppose a company is worth $10 and has 10 shares. The board issues 10 more shares to one person. Sure, the company would still be worth $10. But there are now 20 shares outstanding. Everybody except the guy who got 10 shares would see their shares fall in value from $1 to 50 cents. Basically, issuing stock to one person has the effect, mutatis mutants, of transferring wealth from all…

Still the total value the shareholders hold is the same so they have have not been damaged as a group, which is alleged here. The damage is psychological, i.e. most of them are jealous of one of them

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#66
post #65
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example with smaller numbers: Suppose a company is worth $10 and has 10 shares. The board issues 10 more shares to one person. Sure, the company would still be worth $10. But there are now 20 shares outstanding. Everybody except the guy who got 10 shares would see their shares fall in value from $1 to 50 cents. Basically, issuing stock to one person has the effect, mutatis mutants, of transferring wealth from all…

Still the total value the shareholders hold is the same so they have have not been damaged as a group, which is alleged here. The damage is psychological, i.e. most of them are jealous of one of them

That makes no sense.

Any money or shares Tesla pays to Elon is money or shares that could instead be used to pay dividends to the shareholders or to buy back shares, which increases the value of all the shares that have not been bought back.

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#67
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still the total value the shareholders hold is the same so they have have not been damaged as a group, which is alleged here. The damage is psychological, i.e. most of them are jealous of one of them

That makes no sense. Any money or shares Tesla pays to Elon is money or shares that could instead be used to pay dividends to the shareholders or to buy back shares, which increases the value of all the shares that have not been bought back.

That's again assuming that elon is not a shareholder

The dividends/buybacks are irrelevant. Anyone could sue to cut down dividends to increase buybacks or vice versa but thats besides the issue

The whole conversation about dilution is irrelevant: elon was granted stock options, there would be no issuance of new stock

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#68
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes no sense. Any money or shares Tesla pays to Elon is money or shares that could instead be used to pay dividends to the shareholders or to buy back shares, which increases the value of all the shares that have not been bought back.

That's again assuming that elon is not a shareholder The dividends/buybacks are irrelevant. Anyone could sue to cut down dividends to increase buybacks or vice versa but thats besides the issue The whole conversation about dilution is irrelevant: elon was granted stock options, there would be no issuance of new stock

[deleted]

Re: Lawyers who voided Elon Musk's pay as excessive want $6B fee

#70
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the stock went up 10x during the timeframe of the deal, the shareholders benefited a lot.

Some shareholder benefited a lot. Some bought at the top and have only had negative returns. Some have a net zero cause the bought at this point on the way up. Just because some people have astronomical returns doesn't mean everyone received the same.

We are talking about the shareholders who voted for the deal 6 years ago. The share is 10x since then. That’s why Musk was awarded the shares.
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