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JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

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Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#61

Post by kurikuri »

slt2021 wrote: post #53
CptFribble wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a hard discussion, because the real issue is whether we as a society want prison to be about punishment or rehabilitation. Like many things, Americans generally seem to be split on the topic: Some want prison to be a hard punishing experience and are fine with low quality of life and forced labor, because they believe that this sort of punishment will make criminals regret doing crime, and discourage future peop…

Nordic model works in Nordic countries because there are Nordic people with a singular race and culture and it works for them. One could argue that deterrence should be a major factor just because of demographics of US prison system. For example look at Singapore/Indonesia/Philippines and how they solved drug trafficking problem. US for sure could learn a lot from Singapore Rehabilitation already exists for minor cri…

What are you going on about with your first and second sentences?

Do you believe that people with different cultures/races cannot agree on a system of fair laws?

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#62

Post by smitop »

1oooqooq wrote: post #25

I can't even find if they are making this a tax rebatable donation because it's impossible to find information on jstor. Any search with "jstor" in it will include results about papers (which i won't be able to read more than the title/abstract) from jstor and dozen of other sites, because search engines assume I mean "academic papers" with i type "jstor", even in quotes. And jstor being opaque as it is, it is the pe…

JSTOR doesn't get any tax benefit for doing this because they're already fully exempt from US income tax - their parent, Ithaka, is a 501(c)(3) non-profit (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaka_Harbors).

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#63

Post by bastardoperator »

r00fus wrote: post #47
bastardoperator wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Maybe we shouldn't be putting them in there then? On the taxpayer dime...

I'm happy to pay for reform, people make mistakes. Our prison system isn't about punishment or reform anymore, and you're right, in prison, you shouldn't have a bunch of this stuff available to you. We should be putting violent criminals in prison, that's certainly better then what we used to do. If you want to have them work to pay for their prison stay, I think that's fine.

We literally have homeless people committing crimes to go to jail because it's cleaner, warmer and safer. That how bad it is for some free people, being locked up has upside. Craziness...

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#64

Post by alwaysrunning »

shagie wrote: post #38
parhamn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This goes against any notion of just punishment. Do you have a good explanation for this? I haven't though about prisoner rights much. The obvious layman view of this is "the whole prison thing is about restricting access to resources"

In many cases, the government is prohibited from providing certain things to people convicted of crimes at tax payer expense. This then means that the government has to go to third parties and contract with them to provide those goods and charge the people using them. For example, an ankle monitor - the state can't provide it and give it to the person for supervision and so the third parties who make them have a capt…

> It must run on batteries that can be purchased This is not true, there are electrical outlets in cells and common areas. In cells, it is a requirement for CPAP machines and in common areas there are electrical devices like TV's.

The main complaint and cost for prisoners as I understand it is the high cost of calling family members. Where most people might not even remember pay phones, if you do at their peak it was $0.35 to make a call, versus $6-24 for 15 minutes in prison [2].

When you factor in that most prisoners, that can even find a job in prison, make around $0.10/hr and most of their friends and family members are struggling on the outside bc they are just poor or at least one of the bread winners is now making $0.10/hr, that $15/call is very expensive. And even those that run the prison systems will tell you the number one thing to keeping a prisoner calm is regular communication with their family and friends [1]. It also costs $0.35 to send an email, while the two companies that run the telecoms for the prisons in the US raked in $1.4B [3]

Sorry my rant wasn't aimed at you, just wanted to clarify the part about batteries.

[1] https://www.vera.org/news/prisons-and-jails-keep-making-it-h...

[2] https://ellabakercenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/Who-P...

[3] https://www.businessinsider.com/high-cost-prison-communicati...

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#65

Post by ethbr1 »

aaroninsf wrote: post #56
ttymck wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've described the "punitive" notion of prison. There is, as I understand it, also a "reformative" notion of prison: removing dangerous people from society and attempting to rehabilitate them. In the US, I believe the overwhelming preference of the public (the "obvious layman view") is that prison should be punitive. Other cultures seem to find success with more rehabilitation-focused approaches.

And, this success is measureable . Outcomes in terms of overall recidivism, and in total societal cost, just as in the case of universal health care, so great as to make the American disposition appear not just irrational but willfully counterproductive. This country in its current formulation appears incapable of ever escaping the gravity of feverish Christian moralizing and the correlated vicious contempt for objec…

Honestly, approaching problems empirically and routing around moralizing is one of my great hopes for AI.

If it's a black box, nobody can fan outrage that it's not doing {insert moral but maladaptive thing}.

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#66

Post by ThrowawayTestr »

mortallywounded wrote: post #34
aeturnum wrote: post #29

Obviously this brings up the horrible unfairness of Aaron Swartz's treatment, but before you move on I encourage you to further get upset about the entire US prison system. Prisoners are charged high fees for access to basic resources[1]. There is a whole industry in "providing" services to prisoners at lower quality and higher cost. This goes against any notion of just punishment. Consider pushing back against the p…

> "One family member in West Virginia told APBP they paid more than $400 in three weeks for tablet usage." Access to a tablet and messaging outside the prison is hardly a "basic resource" and it's likely an avenue for exploit. Should we treat prisoners like humans? Sure. Should they be comfortable? Not so much.

Should prisoners be allowed hot water when they shower or is that too much comfort?

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#67

Post by DinaCoder99 »

parhamn wrote: post #33
aeturnum wrote: post #29

Obviously this brings up the horrible unfairness of Aaron Swartz's treatment, but before you move on I encourage you to further get upset about the entire US prison system. Prisoners are charged high fees for access to basic resources[1]. There is a whole industry in "providing" services to prisoners at lower quality and higher cost. This goes against any notion of just punishment. Consider pushing back against the p…

> This goes against any notion of just punishment. Do you have a good explanation for this? I haven't though about prisoner rights much. The obvious layman view of this is "the whole prison thing is about restricting access to resources"

The whole american court system has a pretty twisted conception of justice—it's all based around punishment and "deterrence" despite all evidence that this is a super inefficient way to discourage crime.

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#68

Post by [deleted] »

1oooqooq wrote: post #25

I can't even find if they are making this a tax rebatable donation because it's impossible to find information on jstor. Any search with "jstor" in it will include results about papers (which i won't be able to read more than the title/abstract) from jstor and dozen of other sites, because search engines assume I mean "academic papers" with i type "jstor", even in quotes. And jstor being opaque as it is, it is the pe…

[deleted]

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#69

Post by nonrandomstring »

aaroninsf wrote: post #56
ttymck wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you've described the "punitive" notion of prison. There is, as I understand it, also a "reformative" notion of prison: removing dangerous people from society and attempting to rehabilitate them. In the US, I believe the overwhelming preference of the public (the "obvious layman view") is that prison should be punitive. Other cultures seem to find success with more rehabilitation-focused approaches.

And, this success is measureable . Outcomes in terms of overall recidivism, and in total societal cost, just as in the case of universal health care, so great as to make the American disposition appear not just irrational but willfully counterproductive. This country in its current formulation appears incapable of ever escaping the gravity of feverish Christian moralizing and the correlated vicious contempt for objec…

> feverish Christian moralizing

I realise that Christianity in the USA _means_ (to the average American) something almost unrecognisable to me as an Englishman. But if we're talking about punitive prison systems don't you think that's a little harsh considering a central tenet is the forgiveness of sins.

Re: JSTOR is Now Available in 1k Prisons

#70

Post by nonrandomstring »

shagie wrote: post #38
parhamn wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This goes against any notion of just punishment. Do you have a good explanation for this? I haven't though about prisoner rights much. The obvious layman view of this is "the whole prison thing is about restricting access to resources"

In many cases, the government is prohibited from providing certain things to people convicted of crimes at tax payer expense. This then means that the government has to go to third parties and contract with them to provide those goods and charge the people using them. For example, an ankle monitor - the state can't provide it and give it to the person for supervision and so the third parties who make them have a capt…

> It must run on batteries

Are you allowed batteries in your cell if you're in your cell for battery? (sorry for the potential to polarise the discussion)

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