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Home Screen Advantage

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Re: Home Screen Advantage

#61

Post by ThePhysicist »

JimDabell wrote: post #58
phartenfeller wrote: post #18

I think removing persistent storage and the ability to add websites to the home screen makes it obvious what their strategy is. The EU shows that they want interoperability for big players like they do with messenger interoperability in the DMA. The web is such a fundamental standard and its interoperability is so important I guess the EU will fine Apple for such behavior. The question is how soon this will happen.

> Removing persistent storage They aren’t making any policy changes relating to storage. Apple have been progressively locking down methods websites use to persistently track people for privacy reasons. All forms of permanent storage (e.g. cookies, local storage) are limited to a seven day lifetime unless the user interacts with that website / web app. If the user keeps visiting the website / web app at least once a…

The 7 day limit only applies to third-party cookies / storage, that has nothing to do with progressive web apps.

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#62

Post by JimDabell »

the_gipsy wrote: post #43
boxed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Creating your own app is actually pretty easy on iOS. I run an app on my phone right now that I built myself and that is not on the app store.

It's not easy, you need a multithousand dollar apple machine, and you can't share this app with anybody else.

No, you don’t. You need a Mac, but you don’t need to buy one. You can use a free tier on a build service like Bitrise if you don’t have a Mac.

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#63

Post by diffeomorphism »

rob74 wrote: post #20
n33 wrote: post #7

"True character is revealed in the choices a human being makes under pressure - the greater the pressure, the deeper the revelation, the truer the choice to the character's essential nature." — Robert McKee

Well, the "true character" of any company is essentially being a greedy asshole - and that's no surprise, if they weren't that way from the beginning, the shareholders would dictate this behavior. I know some people think Apple is an exception - maybe these latest shenanigans will change their minds, but I wouldn't bet on it...

Nah, this is too much equivocation. Some companies are much more spiteful than others and shareholders also don't want you burning bridges.

So it is not about Apple being exceptionally good but rather them going out of their way to be exceptionally asshole-ish.

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#64

Post by verisimi »

gambiting wrote: post #26
verisimi wrote: post #5

PWA - progressive web app, delivered via the web, html, CSS, JavaScript, etc.

Thank you! I hate when articles use acronyms and never actually expand what they mean - I read the entire article without any clue what PWAs actually are.

I know - I'm not in that area and got quite a way through before realising I had to look it up!

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#65

Post by rictic »

JimDabell wrote: post #58
phartenfeller wrote: post #18

I think removing persistent storage and the ability to add websites to the home screen makes it obvious what their strategy is. The EU shows that they want interoperability for big players like they do with messenger interoperability in the DMA. The web is such a fundamental standard and its interoperability is so important I guess the EU will fine Apple for such behavior. The question is how soon this will happen.

> Removing persistent storage They aren’t making any policy changes relating to storage. Apple have been progressively locking down methods websites use to persistently track people for privacy reasons. All forms of permanent storage (e.g. cookies, local storage) are limited to a seven day lifetime unless the user interacts with that website / web app. If the user keeps visiting the website / web app at least once a…

"I didn't delete your files, I moved them from the bucket where they aren't deleted to the bucket where they are deleted, and then according to my own policies, I deleted them. This change is mandatory."

It's a policy change that impacts storage and has the practical effect that PWAs on iOS in the EU have had the persistent storage feature removed with no replacement.

Seems fair to gloss that as "Removing persistent storage."

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#66

Post by the_gipsy »

JimDabell wrote: post #58
phartenfeller wrote: post #18

I think removing persistent storage and the ability to add websites to the home screen makes it obvious what their strategy is. The EU shows that they want interoperability for big players like they do with messenger interoperability in the DMA. The web is such a fundamental standard and its interoperability is so important I guess the EU will fine Apple for such behavior. The question is how soon this will happen.

> Removing persistent storage They aren’t making any policy changes relating to storage. Apple have been progressively locking down methods websites use to persistently track people for privacy reasons. All forms of permanent storage (e.g. cookies, local storage) are limited to a seven day lifetime unless the user interacts with that website / web app. If the user keeps visiting the website / web app at least once a…

So - effectively, apple is crippling PWAs exactly as being said. Got it.

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#67

Post by xandrius »

JimDabell wrote: post #62
the_gipsy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not easy, you need a multithousand dollar apple machine, and you can't share this app with anybody else.

No, you don’t. You need a Mac, but you don’t need to buy one. You can use a free tier on a build service like Bitrise if you don’t have a Mac.

But don't you see how it is yet another hurdle?

Android builds work on that same mac too.

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#68

Post by JimDabell »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #61
JimDabell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Removing persistent storage They aren’t making any policy changes relating to storage. Apple have been progressively locking down methods websites use to persistently track people for privacy reasons. All forms of permanent storage (e.g. cookies, local storage) are limited to a seven day lifetime unless the user interacts with that website / web app. If the user keeps visiting the website / web app at least once a…

The 7 day limit only applies to third-party cookies / storage, that has nothing to do with progressive web apps.

That’s incorrect. See the section Capped Lifetime For All Script-Writeable Website Data:

https://webkit.org/blog/9521/intelligent-tracking-prevention...

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#69

Post by JimDabell »

the_gipsy wrote: post #66
JimDabell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Removing persistent storage They aren’t making any policy changes relating to storage. Apple have been progressively locking down methods websites use to persistently track people for privacy reasons. All forms of permanent storage (e.g. cookies, local storage) are limited to a seven day lifetime unless the user interacts with that website / web app. If the user keeps visiting the website / web app at least once a…

So - effectively , apple is crippling PWAs exactly as being said. Got it.

I’m saying that Apple’s policy specifically regarding storage is the same as it was back in 2019.

Re: Home Screen Advantage

#70

Post by JimDabell »

rictic wrote: post #65
JimDabell wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Removing persistent storage They aren’t making any policy changes relating to storage. Apple have been progressively locking down methods websites use to persistently track people for privacy reasons. All forms of permanent storage (e.g. cookies, local storage) are limited to a seven day lifetime unless the user interacts with that website / web app. If the user keeps visiting the website / web app at least once a…

"I didn't delete your files, I moved them from the bucket where they aren't deleted to the bucket where they are deleted, and then according to my own policies, I deleted them. This change is mandatory." It's a policy change that impacts storage and has the practical effect that PWAs on iOS in the EU have had the persistent storage feature removed with no replacement. Seems fair to gloss that as "Removing persistent…

> It's a policy change that impacts storage

I agree. It has a knock-on effect. But their storage policy hasn’t changed, a different policy has.

> Seems fair to gloss that as "Removing persistent storage."

The problem is when you try to determine their intent from the misunderstanding that they have changed their policy specifically regarding storage. They haven’t done this. Their storage policy is the same as it has been for years.

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