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Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

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Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#61

Post by OnionBlender »

floatrock wrote: post #36

Here's the real punchline: > Experts told the Vancouver Sun that Air Canada may have succeeded in avoiding liability in Moffatt's case if its chatbot had warned customers that the information that the chatbot provided may not be accurate. Here's a glimpse into our Kafka-esque AI-powered future: every corporate lawyer is now making sure any customer service request will be gated by a chatbot containing a disclaimer li…

If that is such a perfect way to avoid getting sued, why don't they put that on every page of their website and train all of their customer service staff to say that when they talk to customers?

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#62

Post by RajT88 »

rainbowzootsuit wrote: post #46
RajT88 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have had this happen in a sense. I once booked a flight to meet my then-fiancee in Florida on vacation. Work travel came up unexpectedly, and I booked my work travel from ORD > SFO > TPA. Before I made that booking, I called the airline specifically to ask them if skipping the ORD > TPA leg of my personal travel was going to cause me problems. The agent confirmed, twice that it would not. This was a lie. Buried in…

In the US at least once that notification that "the call may be recorded for quality assurance " happens, both parties have been notified and you're good to record regardless of the state you are in. What do you use for recording your calls?

I used to use a couple of apps like Cube ACR, or Call Recorder Pro, but these no longer work, and I'm skeptical of the workarounds to get them working again.

Given the new restrictions in Android 10, probably the way forward is a passthrough device which uses 3.5mm connectors to MITM the audio. I haven't found one which is a sure bet yet.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#63

Post by somat »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #29
mschuster91 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They tried to argue that their employees can lie to your face to get you to buy a ticket under false pretense and then refuse to honor the promised terms. That's fucked. Pretty standard behavior for big companies. Airlines and telcos are the utter worst ... you have agent A on the phone on Monday, who promises X to be done by Wednesday. Thursday, you call again, get agent B, who says he doesn't see anything, not ev…

I bet if we removed the requirement to get a lawyer and file a lawsuit that those behaviors would vanish real quick, if all you had to do as the wronged consumer was report to an authority that Company X is doing business dishonestly.

You are probably not wrong, however take note that this is exactly the line of thinking that led to the DMCA. Beware the law of unintended consequences.

To misquote you.

"I bet if we removed the requirement to get a lawyer and file a lawsuit that those behaviors would vanish real quick, if all you had to do as the wronged copyright holder was report to an authority(the hosting service) that Company X is infringing on your copyright."

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#64

Post by effingwewt »

OnionBlender wrote: post #61
floatrock wrote: post #36

Here's the real punchline: > Experts told the Vancouver Sun that Air Canada may have succeeded in avoiding liability in Moffatt's case if its chatbot had warned customers that the information that the chatbot provided may not be accurate. Here's a glimpse into our Kafka-esque AI-powered future: every corporate lawyer is now making sure any customer service request will be gated by a chatbot containing a disclaimer li…

If that is such a perfect way to avoid getting sued, why don't they put that on every page of their website and train all of their customer service staff to say that when they talk to customers?

....Because an actual judge hadn't said it yet.

I still.remember when Microsoft updated thr 360 TOS to force arbitration the day after it was deemed legal in a completely separate case.

Rest assured there is an incoming flood of TOS updates.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#65

Post by acdha »

jeffbee wrote: post #44

I don't even see how this is a big story. An expressed representation about what a product is or does, how it works, and the terms of sale in consumer contexts are binding on the seller. It is the same in America. If you go into a store and they say that you can return it if you don't like it, then you can. If you buy a TV and the guy at the store tells you it also makes pancakes, you can get your money back if it tu…

The interest in this story comes from the fact that Air Canada tried to fight it using the argument that they aren’t liable for anything their agents say. Businesses around the world are so eager to start laying people off that it’s almost certain that they will not be the only ones to try a variation on that claim. I see the important point being reinforcing liability laws and especially not allowing them to shirk responsibility with disclaimers — otherwise we’ll just see more companies cut staffing on their phone support to force people to use a system with a “you are responsible for checking everything this chat bot says for accuracy” notice.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#67

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

im3w1l wrote: post #57
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that unfortunate? I honestly don't think there's any value in using AI for this if it's not guaranteed to give you correct answer.

I think that there can be an error rate that is low enough to still be very useful and a net-positive for the economy. But if there is a small chance to just end the company on the spot, then no one will use it despite the benefits. So how can we have the good parts without the bad, this is my question.

I guess the onus is on people to prove that using AI specifically is somehow a net-positive for the economy because that's in no way a given. But I don't feed good about Air Canada trying to make that case.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#68

Post by npongratz »

pizzalife wrote: post #54
logicalmonster wrote: post #50

Would a company be liable to uphold its promises if a rogue human customer service agent promised something ridiculous such as 1 million dollars worth of free flights?

No, the specific employee would most likely be liable if there is criminal conduct (this varies obviously). But a chatbot is not a person.

> But a chatbot is not a person.

We live in an interesting world. In the US, a corporation is legally a person, and a chatbot is not a person[0]. I'm looking forward to the first Supreme Court case involving a corporation consisting of chatbots.

[0] I'm handwaving in this lead-in to the fantasy here, so, dear reader, please give me a break for oversimplifying and ignoring technicalities.

Re: Air Canada Has to Honor a Refund Policy Its Chatbot Made Up

#69

Post by callalex »

im3w1l wrote: post #13

I hope there can be some reasonable middle ground. I think in this case it's good the woman got her money. But Air Canada, presumably scared of what the next case might cost them decided to turn the chat bot off entirely. I think that's a bit unfortunate. I don't know what the solution looks like. Maybe some combination of courts only upholding "reasonable" claims by AI. And then insurance to cover the gaps?

Or just hire a customer service department. That worked fine for the last hundred or so years.
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