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Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

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Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would increase total suffering, as people condemned to be executed will under go a great deal of suffering.

> That would increase total suffering Not for long, afterwards there would be nobody left to suffer.

This debate is in bad faith.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#62

This is why harm reduction is absolutely crucial. A lot of people will recover on their own given time, but you can't recover if you're dead. A moralistic model based primarily or solely on abstinence-based recovery fails addicts, their families and society.

Alternatively, for some - most really - the real possibility of death and real consequences is what was necessary to pull out of it. To break through the delusional behavior. But even then, it may not be enough.

The Issue, imo, is when death is not a certainty, but a surprise consequence (or sudden) due to bad or inconsistent supply, etc.

I recently met someone who it took 6 NARCAN to revive last time he overdid it. Frankly, I’m surprised his body was able to handle it - apparently it was an extremely unpleasant experience.

And, frankly, he might not come back next time.

He seemed to take it seriously. We’ll see.

Not letting your kid touch the hot stove at all is as bad as letting them pull a pot of boiling water down on their head.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#63

What was the followup to the "Vietnam vets addicted to heroin that stopped when they came back"? That was a hot internet topic about, what 5-10 years ago that was basically alleging addiction was strongly tied to surroundings/social graph?

Johann Hari has carried that torch a bit, has some very interesting ideas

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of net human suffering we can execute everyone. No people -- no suffering

That would increase total suffering, as people condemned to be executed will under go a great deal of suffering.

Inform them only after it’s done.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#65
post #35

I don't have a lot of personal experience dealing with addiction in either myself or others, but TFA lays out to me a pretty compelling claim that addiction is a developmental disorder. The current mainstream belief of addiction as disease has always seemed to me like it had a great number of holes; it's main purpose was to make people stop stigmatizing addicts for moral failing. The comparison to ADHD made in the ar…

I've heard the first-time heroin experience described as feeling like "being wrapped in a warm, wet blanket." What else feels like that? A lot of addiction is trying to get back to the comfort of the womb to escape from early childhood traumas and abuses. You get a taste of that with the use but never get close to it again after.

> never get close to it again after.

The problem isn't whether they can get close to it again, the problem is that for some people, addiction is connected with using an external means of dissociation to obtain instant control over feelings without relating to them on their own terms. there are ways certainly to return to peace but it's a long and narrow road through your own self's karma. karma is not outside. it s a power sticking to your consciousness which exists by propagating itself and being reinput back into your consciousness through your behavior by modifying your vision to see what was rather than what is. actually opening eyes to reality and accepting it is said to be curative and the thing which can suppress and eventually stop karma. it seems to simply die out when it cannot act. at that time it's explained that your consciousness becomes able to experience nirvana (peace) in connection with the world of origin. some of key things arent well understood by most students of Buddhism anymore. even though someone experiences peace once they have still yet to find out what condition can cause the true rest, which Buddha explained near the end of his life reluctantly.

karma can be made, for example by telling lies, by grudge, and "attachment" in the sense of idealism

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#67
post #60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without the moralism, harm reduction is a vague term. Here in Canada the government has been pushing safe supply as a part of harm reduction. We still get the same number of overdoses but our cities are now filled with tent encampments and people with addiction issues. It doesn't seem to have helped with anything it's just made things worse I don't deny that there are some forms of harm reduction which are proven to…

No, some local governments have been doing safe injection sites . Safe supply is a political football that's scapegoated despite not being implemented anywhere in Canada. And neither is a solution to the homelessness, addictions, and mental health crises. Every time I hear a politician talking about safe supply, they say it's not a silver bullet. Which is weird because nobody claims it's a silver bullet. Know what el…

No your statement is incorrect. We do have safe supply in Canada. The CBC even wrote an article defending our safe supply program.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7071004

And this is a part of my problem with all this. I live in Toronto's downtown core and the explosion in drug issues since these policies came into effect is something I see and live with. And it's the same in our other major cities.

And too often the response from the proponents of these policies is outright misinformation, accusations of moralism. As someone living in an area where I am watching a drug problem spiral out of control, this is frankly infuriating.

This is my city and I see these people with addiction as neighbors I want to help. But these policies don't appear to be helping them. It looks to me like it's making things worse

If it's so good, if it's so helpful, why are there tent encampments full of people with drug issues popping up. We have shelters so it's not an issue of lack of shelters. Why are there so many more people high or doing drugs on our streets, why are overdose deaths the same or higher

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#68
post #60
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without the moralism, harm reduction is a vague term. Here in Canada the government has been pushing safe supply as a part of harm reduction. We still get the same number of overdoses but our cities are now filled with tent encampments and people with addiction issues. It doesn't seem to have helped with anything it's just made things worse I don't deny that there are some forms of harm reduction which are proven to…

No, some local governments have been doing safe injection sites . Safe supply is a political football that's scapegoated despite not being implemented anywhere in Canada. And neither is a solution to the homelessness, addictions, and mental health crises. Every time I hear a politician talking about safe supply, they say it's not a silver bullet. Which is weird because nobody claims it's a silver bullet. Know what el…

As a former substance abuser I can assure you that criminalization was a strong motivator to stop. Anything and everything that made my behavior seem OK/normal in any way fueled the addiction. Fear of permanent incarceration was significant factor in hitting my bottom.

Re: Most people with addiction simply grow out of it (2014)

#69

This article confuses drug use with addiction. Addiction is a state where a patient wants to quit a drug, but can't. And that is when you want to intervene as a psychiatrist.

There is nothing in the definition of addiction that requires the desire to quit
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