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Paying people to work on open source is good

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Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He anticipated your comment and already replied. You're free to disagree with him, but he clearly thought that part through already and already knows he disagrees with you and with the OSI. This entire post is his justification for his disagreement, while all you have is an appeal to the OSI definition that he's specifically rejecting. > “open source” / “free software” > Note the deliberate use of lower case. I’m not…

I used lower case deliberately as well. It's a term that excludes source available not just because of OSI but because of the original community. And members of the current community can argue for a new, weaker, openwashed meaning of it, but people can always look back to the early days and see the true meaning of it.

What "original community" are you referring to here? Are we talking about the free software movement that Richard Stallman founded, or the Open Source Initiative that forked off of the movement in an effort to be more friendly to businesses?

It's a bit ironic that people now wax lyrical about the "true meaning" of Open Source when the OSI described their origin like this (emphasis added):

> The conferees decided it was time to dump the moralizing and confrontational attitude that had been associated with "free software" in the past and sell the idea strictly on the same pragmatic, business-case grounds that had motivated Netscape. They brainstormed about tactics and a new label. "Open source", contributed by Chris Peterson, was the best thing they came up with.

http://web.archive.org/web/20071115150105/https://opensource...

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#62
I think cooperatively owned tech orgs are the future. Contribution to open source software will always lag behind private entities as people aren't prone to work for free.

Are there any open source projects that are monetized/pay their contributors?

If I ever get a successful startup going, I am going to explore this model.

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#63

So many strawmen being set-up in this article the crow population is gonna take a major nose dive. If I hate any specific business model that is used by a company that does some some open source suddenly I don't think people deserve to be paid for their work? Yeah no, that's garbage. There's plenty of garbage business models and they aren't suddenly okay because one company uses it and 1% of their money funds some sm…

[deleted]

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used lower case deliberately as well. It's a term that excludes source available not just because of OSI but because of the original community. And members of the current community can argue for a new, weaker, openwashed meaning of it, but people can always look back to the early days and see the true meaning of it.

What "original community" are you referring to here? Are we talking about the free software movement that Richard Stallman founded, or the Open Source Initiative that forked off of the movement in an effort to be more friendly to businesses? It's a bit ironic that people now wax lyrical about the "true meaning" of Open Source when the OSI described their origin like this (emphasis added): > The conferees decided it w…

> What "original community" are you referring to here?

It's a big community with a wide range of perspectives, but not so big that it can't be understood. To me the original community was mostly over a decade or two. This is similar to other communities such as a burgeoning genre of music. Whatever it was, it was established long before the words "Business Source License" were uttered. The first date range that comes to mind is 1993 to 2003 if it's one decade, or 1990 to 2010 if it's two decades. With the smaller range, you have the development of Linux, and the way Linux took over servers. With the larger range, there is Firefox taking on IE, as well as WordPress, Django, and Ruby on Rails becoming popular.

Even people who tried to fight it understand it. That is why before the deliberately misleading strategy being used now, some who wanted to promote code that could be read but couldn't freely be used settled for calling source available.

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#65
This is as good a context as any to remind people of the origins of the Open Source Initiative and its definitions. Here's how the OSI described its history on its website in 2007 (emphasis added):

> The conferees decided it was time to dump the moralizing and confrontational attitude that had been associated with "free software" in the past and sell the idea strictly on the same pragmatic, business-case grounds that had motivated Netscape. They brainstormed about tactics and a new label. ... A month later ... the participants voted to promote the use of the term 'open source', and agreed to adopt with it the new rhetoric of pragmatism and market-friendliness that Raymond had been developing.

I find it a bit amusing that here we are, decades later, and people who use non-OSI licenses to try to thwart exploitation by enormous corporations are condemned on highly moralistic grounds for not being "truly open source".

http://web.archive.org/web/20071115150105/https://opensource...

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#66
The community I've been most involved in over the past few years has been R/tidyverse. Some developers are paid (by RStudio [now Posit] and other orgs, like R Consortium) to work on software, docs, community initiatives etc.

The experience as a programmer in this domain is amazing. Having these funded full time OSS contributors lets thousands of R enthusiasts (like me) benefit because someone incredibly high-leverage was paid to give a lot of their time to a project. So when you go to use that library, its docs are immaculate (I'm thinking all the tidyverse packages, Shiny, RMarkdown etc), and the examples are simple and brilliant. Getting up and running is often as little as taking an educated guess at how it would work, and often that's exactly how the function/package was designed! Having at least one dedicated person seems to dramatically improve the quality of OSS, possibly because it helps organise the dozens of people each making smaller contributions.

I suspect this works so well because open source projects sometimes don't attract attention to key areas like documentation, and UX (some of my most-loved OSS projects still have horrendous UX because, I suspect, contributors love to add things but nobody wants to be the person who organises it into a coherent package for users, much less remove people's contributions because they're unnecessary and confuse users).

When I contrast the experience with communities that have much fewer (or no) full time funded OSS contributors, there's much more niggle and inconsistency with libraries, interoperability, and especially in documentation.

Sorry, I'm rambling, but the R community has been an amazing example of how paying a few dozen full time OSS people can have a dramatically outsized benefit to the community for years to come. I'm very appreciative I get to stand on the shoulders of these humble giants.

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#67
I've always thought a neat model would be something like: pay for convenience, for example, something like: to run git pull/clone, you have to purchase "premium" access to their repo, but the code's available and you can just download a tar.gz of it if you want. No way would a company balk at paying a little to have a more reasonable system for updates, etc, but the code is still fully open source, free software, etc.

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#68
There is another potential source of funding for open source that is quite congruent to its ethos and that is the public sector. For many types of software used by public sector entities it would be quite efficient to support open source development as a public good.

There will always be points of view that would consider this (too) as a problematic source of funding (e.g., being suspicious of government actors and their motives) and it can be a major hassle to handle public sector bureaucracy, but given the distribution of demand for software in the economy it seems something natural to some extend and it could alleviate some of the sustainability issues with open source development.

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#69
I know it's not about the definition of open source, but that's actually what I found interesting from the article :-). It would have been so simple for the author to acknowledge the actual definition of "open source" and to just mention that their opinion extends to other models... Anyway:

- I did not know the BSL! That actually sounds like a pretty great idea: my understanding is that the company makes the code source-available but with a deadline (of maximum 4 years): after that deadline, the code becomes GPLv2. If more companies used that instead of proprietary, it would be a win for open source in the long run (because more code would become GPLv2)!

- I am also discovering Polyform. That's fun, but less exciting to me than the BSL.

- The JSON license seems to be purposely annoying. Reads like some kind of "Fuck you" to the very concept of licenses.

Re: Paying people to work on open source is good

#70
Did the author actually want to rant about the "paying people to work on " part, or was it just an excuse to be controversial about the very definition of open source? Not clear to me.

But if it was the former, what a way to shoot oneself in the foot!

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