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If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

devblogs.microsoft.com

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Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#61

Post by wrs »

weinzierl wrote: post #38
paxys wrote: post #10

People are reacting negatively as expected, but stuff like this is exactly why you can click on a file that was written in Word '97 or a game that was compiled for MS-DOS three decades ago and it opens on your computer exactly as expected. Backwards compatibility is always messy. You either do it imperfectly or don't do it at all.

A file that was written in Word '97 did not even open exactly as expected on two different computers 25 years ago. Formatting depended on the installed printer drivers. Good luck with that document today. My LaTeX files from 35 years ago, on the other hand - they just do fine.

If I recall correctly, the common phenomenon where you open a Word document, immediately close it, and are asked whether you want to save your changes (???) has something to do with printer settings.

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#62

Post by Peter0x44 »

recursive wrote: post #13
debacle wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We" did. Microsoft didn't. Not unexpected.

Is this part of a fan fiction where MS isn't amazing at legacy compatibility?

I think their BC is overrated. Wine manages to do a better job.

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#63

Post by bombcar »

gruez wrote: post #58
weinzierl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A file that was written in Word '97 did not even open exactly as expected on two different computers 25 years ago. Formatting depended on the installed printer drivers. Good luck with that document today. My LaTeX files from 35 years ago, on the other hand - they just do fine.

>My LaTeX files from 35 years ago, on the other hand - they just do fine. Yeah, because they're plain text. A fairer comparison would be whether they render pixel perfectly as 35 years ago, which I doubt.

If you compile them to DVI you'll get the same DVI file.

Compiled to PDF you might get very slight differences.

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#64

Post by bombcar »

GMoromisato wrote: post #24
recursive wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is that the app fails to run at all. Doesn't seem like satire to me.

Or worse, crashes at a random spot because it tried to initialize the printer stack.

Anyone who has spent some time with vintage or otherwise older software (and even some new stuff) should have experienced a "don't do this, it explodes" - often the cause is something akin to what Raymond is pointing out. The software asks for something, gets back an answer it can't handle, explodes.

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#65

Post by bombcar »

ace2358 wrote: post #8
Analemma_ wrote: post #3

I understand the logic here, and I'm aware Microsoft has a large number of convoluted backward-compatibility requirements, but this seems like drinking to solve your problems and just putting off the inevitable hangover. To be clear: what you're doing here is lying to the user and the developer. Maybe that's justified in isolation, but now this lie is one more bit of "hidden state" you have to keep track of in furthe…

This resonates with me. My computers used to crash at the app level, OS level or hardware level. Now when something goes wrong the system just kinda gets lazy and stops working. But it won’t crash. I’ve had my mac pinwheel on the login screen. I can still access the shell and file shares remotely, and even screen share to a logged in user. But login.app refuses to crash so it’ll just pinwheel. I’m glad I never forgot…

My experience is that macOS especially really REALLY absolutely hates when the Internet goes sideways - not actually down, but really bad packet loss; DNS starts being slow and failing sometimes but not completely ... then you enter hell.

Next time it happens try turning network connections all the way off.

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#66

Post by gruez »

alpaca128 wrote: post #60
paxys wrote: post #10

People are reacting negatively as expected, but stuff like this is exactly why you can click on a file that was written in Word '97 or a game that was compiled for MS-DOS three decades ago and it opens on your computer exactly as expected. Backwards compatibility is always messy. You either do it imperfectly or don't do it at all.

A file from 1997? Maybe if you get lucky, but there's also a good chance that it will simply look wrong in any office application you try. With Word you can't even guarantee that reopening the file on the same computer & version won't change its formatting. That was the reason I learned TeX. And games? Microsoft broke numerous games by shutting down GFWL. I had to pirate Dark Souls as my original copy wasn't playable…

>With Word you can't even guarantee that reopening the file on the same computer & version won't change its formatting.

Source? This seems utterly bizarre.

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#67

Post by gruez »

bombcar wrote: post #63
gruez wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My LaTeX files from 35 years ago, on the other hand - they just do fine. Yeah, because they're plain text. A fairer comparison would be whether they render pixel perfectly as 35 years ago, which I doubt.

If you compile them to DVI you'll get the same DVI file. Compiled to PDF you might get very slight differences.

>the same DVI file.

Which is used by approximately no one. Good luck uploading your resume in DVI.

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#68

Post by alpaca128 »

Jabrov wrote: post #4

"The idea here is to have the printing functions all behave in a manner perfectly consistent with printing being fully supported, yet mysteriously there is never a printer to print to." This must be satire. Otherwise I can't comprehend how something as infuriating as this could be presented as a good or smart thing to do UX-wise

MS being okay with the user clicking somewhere and never getting any reaction out of it explains many of my interactions with Windows 10.

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#69

Post by morsch »

Arainach wrote: post #57
weinzierl wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point made above was "opens exactly as expected" . So, does it look like the authors intended in 1996? I doubt it.

If you "doubt" it, please provide a specific example of what you believe is inaccurate in the document rendering.

As it happens, we just had this discussion regarding a Word document from 1990: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39357709

Re: If you're just going to sit there doing nothing, at least do nothing correctly

#70

Post by alpaca128 »

gruez wrote: post #46
thimp wrote: post #35

It's a crap analogy. Why would you expose a printing API on a device without printing support? Just ifdef it out on the build.

How about an app originally designed for iPhone but is running on an iPad? iPhones can make calls, but iPads can't. Sure, a properly designed iPad app wouldn't try to use the phone functionality, but what if the developer is too lazy to develop a dedicated iPad app? Surely a crappy iPhone app running on iPad is better than no app at all?

Wouldn't that be part of Apple's app reviews?
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