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The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

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Re: The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

#61

Post by rakoo »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #57
amonith wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but most of the people I know above 30 don't "go out" on weekday evenings nor regular weekends tbh. Even people without kids. Various trips and meets in friends' houses during the day (usually Sunday) is the main form of socializing.

I'm in the "over 30 without kids" category. I used to do the go to bed / wake up early thing. Used to be great for the same reasons OP mentions. Then I found there actually were things I wanted to do on weekdays. These tend to happen later in the evening, like 8-9 PM. Think taking up some sport / dance / other kind of class. Clubs usually meet in the evenings, too. In my neck of the woods, people usually start work a…

And that's without mentioning participating in NGOs, collectives, unions, or dare I say activism.

The current system is not built for free time, it is built for work time and if you're lucky you can shove some quality time with your kids between your employer and your sleep but that's optional.

If we didn't work so much, used all the producittvity gains to actually work less as was promised, this wouldn't even be a discussion, but alas.

Re: The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

#62

Post by [deleted] »

kqr wrote: post #38
lmm wrote: post #3

Has this evidence been examined sceptically? I've heard this theory a few times, but it always sounds like one person's obsession, and I struggle to credit it.

Especially since there's that one other person -- Piotr Wozniak -- who shares the idea of two sleeps but argues they are completely different to the Ekrich characterisation. Wozniak thinks the second sleep is the mid-day nap. That resonates much more with my needs.

[deleted]

Re: The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

#63

Post by mnk47 »

satvikpendem wrote: post #40

I've been experimenting a lot with polyphasic sleep over the years. I've done siestas, Everyman routines, Dual Core, Biphasic-X, etc. They're all interesting in their own way but these days I've been getting into the dual core routine which is similar to the post's two sleeps. These routines by the way are documented on https://www.polyphasic.net/polyphasic-sleep-schedules/

I have gastroparesis, which often gives me bloating/pain that lasts a long time, and if I'm too hungry at night, I have to choose between trying to ignore hunger and not sleeping for the next ~3 hours (even a snack or a cup of water makes me bloated). On top of that, I live in a studio with a cat and a morning person. Due to this, sleeping for 8 hours straight uninterrupted is extremely difficult, so I'm very curious about polyphasic sleep.

In your experience, are you able to learn and be productive while adjusting to these sleep cycles? How long does it take you to adjust and feel well rested? Are there any risks to be wary of, and any tips to change my sleep routine effectively?

Re: The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

#64

Post by satvikpendem »

mnk47 wrote: post #63
satvikpendem wrote: post #40

I've been experimenting a lot with polyphasic sleep over the years. I've done siestas, Everyman routines, Dual Core, Biphasic-X, etc. They're all interesting in their own way but these days I've been getting into the dual core routine which is similar to the post's two sleeps. These routines by the way are documented on https://www.polyphasic.net/polyphasic-sleep-schedules/

I have gastroparesis, which often gives me bloating/pain that lasts a long time, and if I'm too hungry at night, I have to choose between trying to ignore hunger and not sleeping for the next ~3 hours (even a snack or a cup of water makes me bloated). On top of that, I live in a studio with a cat and a morning person. Due to this, sleeping for 8 hours straight uninterrupted is extremely difficult, so I'm very curious…

Yep, it takes around a month though to fully adapt. You are better served asking questions on the Discord, they are more knowledgeable than I: https://discord.gg/polyphasic-sleeping-249219704655183876

Re: The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

#65

Post by clarkema »

CalRobert wrote: post #53
elliotec wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait tell us more about use your computer by candlelight… do you mean like red shift? Most OSes have this built in and there are 3rd party apps that can do candlelight settings

I never found a solution. I ended up using a very red-shifted screen set to a very low light but what I really wanted was e-ink, like a Kindle for instance. The only options I came across were impractically expensive, though. https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-e-ink-monitor-p... for instance, and this was years ago when there were fewer options.

I have a 'study' setup using a Boox Mira (portable 13" eink screen) for exactly this kind of use; not polyphasic in my particular case but late evening use. Yes, the screen is expensive, but _totally_ worth it.

Re: The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

#66

Post by washadjeffmad »

CalRobert wrote: post #53
elliotec wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait tell us more about use your computer by candlelight… do you mean like red shift? Most OSes have this built in and there are 3rd party apps that can do candlelight settings

I never found a solution. I ended up using a very red-shifted screen set to a very low light but what I really wanted was e-ink, like a Kindle for instance. The only options I came across were impractically expensive, though. https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-e-ink-monitor-p... for instance, and this was years ago when there were fewer options.

Just noting because I went through the same, but I haven't found I've been able to use any LCD or OLED at very low contrast and brightness without content becoming illegible or uncomfortable without ambient light. However, a relatively smaller CRT maintains a contrast ratio that I don't seem to struggle to look at or decipher in complete darkness.

I've also tried dropping the aspect ratio on my 42" 4k OLED to 4:3 and not scaling the resolution to limit light output, but the pixel density ultimately seems to be a limiter. Since I can work on my smartphone at its lowest output and with redshift, a smaller, higher-dpi display may be key.

Re: The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

#67

Post by nunez »

waking up in the middle of the night is extremely normal, even with "perfect" sleep hygiene.

in fact, cbt-i, the therapy I undertook last year and earlier this year, takes advantage of this to help patients mitigate their insomnia.[0]

the treatment protocol requires that you get out of bed and literally go anywhere else when you wake up at night. you can do almost anything you want during that time, even watch TV or play games! (i read hacker news or read "linux kernel development" by robert love; if you're on here, thanks!)

given this, it's not surprising that our ancestors divided their sleep into two halves. our circadian rhythms are naturally programmed to sleep when it's dark and stay awake when it's bright. i could imagine that their circadian rhythms were more "in tune" before electricity.

[0] "insomnia" isn't curable and can happen to everyone! it's more of a state of being than a condition or disease.

Re: The medieval habit of 'two sleeps' (2022)

#68

Post by nunez »

nly wrote: post #44
buserror wrote: post #28

I do that a lot these days. I went to bed around 8:30pm, woke at 4am... It's 6:50 now and I've done a lot of work! It's nice, quiet, I just really crack on. I'm waiting for 8am, then feed + walk the dogs, then I'll go back to bed for 1h or a bit more (tops), and it'll still be early when I wake up again. Most of my colleagues will show up around 10 with bleary eyes while I've done most of the stuff I wanted to do alr…

So your weekday evening social life is non existent?

i sleep similarly to the OP (2200-0500). i wouldn't say it's non-existent. instead, i'm much more selective over what i do at night.

the calculus now is: "is this thing that ends super late worth being tired as shit the next day? i'm going to wake up at 0500 regardless."

a date night with my wife or close friends that goes deep into the night? sure!

a random night where folks just want to drink? unlikely, unless i _really_ want to hang with those people. (this means i dip early for work events now. this is okay, since most of the people i work with have kids and need to bail earlier to take care of them.)

that said, i "can" be more selective now because i spent many years doing the latter. i know how it goes, and i've drank enough to know that i'm not missing anything.

i used to be a super hardcore night owl (0200-0900). transforming into an early bird was very hard but extremely worth it. between this and giving up caffeine, my productivity shot up through the roof and my mood in the morning is much more stable.

also, waking up early is a great way to make friends with others that wake up early!

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