Live data from Hacker News

'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

english.elpais.com

61–70 of 170 posts

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#61

Kubrick’s version was a failure because he missed the most important part and the last few pages of the book. In the book at the very end Alex decides out of his own free will to stop being violent. Which is the entire point of the book: free will vs being forced to do something. It’s so powerful, I don’t think any book affected as much as that did at the time. Kubrick focused on the violence and the rapes and by lea…

[flagged]

[dead]

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably a typo, but Gibson also co-authored The Difference Engine, which is as Steam Punk as it gets :) (and according to Wikipedia "...is widely regarded as a book that helped establish the genre conventions of steampunk.")

Im going to have to read that now. Loved Neuromancer, and Steam Punk is one of my favorite genres

Another one of today's lucky 10000.

It's a hard piece but overall I enjoyed reading it.

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#63
post #16

Tangential: I remember reading a criticism about the South Park ginger episode leading to redheads getting bullied. I was curious (and still haven't wrapped my head around) what blame can be placed, if any. 1. Shitty people had latent bullying and cruelty instincts and South Park gave them the idea of diverting that to redheads 2. People were just chilling until South Park taught them to be cruel and bully gingers

Redheads were bullied long before the South Park even existed.

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#64
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Steam Punk Cyber Punk?

Probably a typo, but Gibson also co-authored The Difference Engine, which is as Steam Punk as it gets :) (and according to Wikipedia "...is widely regarded as a book that helped establish the genre conventions of steampunk.")

... Well, I think many of the genre conventions were established enough that there was even one tabletop Steam Punk RPG that predated the publication of "The Difference Engine" (1990):

Space 1889 - (first published in 1988/89)

However - I think it was essentially just a convergence of cultural zeitgeist within about an 8-year period.

(Myself, I preferred "Castle Falkenstein" (1994) - but that was because I liked just about anything Mike Pondsmith/Talsorian released)

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#65
post #55

Kubrick’s version was a failure because he missed the most important part and the last few pages of the book. In the book at the very end Alex decides out of his own free will to stop being violent. Which is the entire point of the book: free will vs being forced to do something. It’s so powerful, I don’t think any book affected as much as that did at the time. Kubrick focused on the violence and the rapes and by lea…

I’m gonna hard disagree with you here. Having read the novel and seen the movie, Kubrick was 100% right to leave the last chapter out. With the last chapter intact, the story is no longer about Alex. It’s about some hypothetical futuristic society where ultraviolence is the norm and is just considered to be some coming of age rite of passage, that you eventually grow out of. It takes the violence in the story and mak…

I disagree with the disagreements. We look naturally at the shock value of the violence but harshly reject the shock of a character turning around out of the blue. We never give "good" the privilege of irrationality.

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#66
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m gonna hard disagree with you here. Having read the novel and seen the movie, Kubrick was 100% right to leave the last chapter out. With the last chapter intact, the story is no longer about Alex. It’s about some hypothetical futuristic society where ultraviolence is the norm and is just considered to be some coming of age rite of passage, that you eventually grow out of. It takes the violence in the story and mak…

I disagree with the disagreements. We look naturally at the shock value of the violence but harshly reject the shock of a character turning around out of the blue. We never give "good" the privilege of irrationality.

Because it’s not that interesting. Bad guy decides being bad is boring, and starts being good? Like, okay, but… why?

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#67

Kubrick’s version was a failure because he missed the most important part and the last few pages of the book. In the book at the very end Alex decides out of his own free will to stop being violent. Which is the entire point of the book: free will vs being forced to do something. It’s so powerful, I don’t think any book affected as much as that did at the time. Kubrick focused on the violence and the rapes and by lea…

This take reminds me of how Stephen King considers Kubrick's The Shining a terrible film[1]. I had the misfortune of accidentally renting the Stephen King approved The Shining miniseries[2], and I have to say - it's worse in every way: slow, plodding, and forgettable. I can't comment how either compares to the book - I've never read it - but the Kubrick version is the superior film.

This is all a long way of saying that faithfulness to the source material is overrated in film. Some written works just don't work well when closely adapted to the screen. A few notable movies even manage to twist the original to express a completely different idea or theme (e.g. Starship Troopers). The original author is not some ultimate authority regarding the meaning of a work.

[1] https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/why-stephen-king-hated-stanley-...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shining_(miniseries)

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#68

Kubrick’s version was a failure because he missed the most important part and the last few pages of the book. In the book at the very end Alex decides out of his own free will to stop being violent. Which is the entire point of the book: free will vs being forced to do something. It’s so powerful, I don’t think any book affected as much as that did at the time. Kubrick focused on the violence and the rapes and by lea…

Whoa I read it in the US and it omitted that chapter!

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#69

Kubrick’s version was a failure because he missed the most important part and the last few pages of the book. In the book at the very end Alex decides out of his own free will to stop being violent. Which is the entire point of the book: free will vs being forced to do something. It’s so powerful, I don’t think any book affected as much as that did at the time. Kubrick focused on the violence and the rapes and by lea…

I actually believe that it was the right decision from an artistic perspective. The last chapter of the book removes all moral ambiguity or provocation, and is instead leaving you with the moral of the story as explicit. Without it, you are left to ponder the question of morality.

Re: 'I should not have written 'A Clockwork Orange''

#70
post #8

I feel like the moment you put any idea out there you have the potential to influence people unexpectedly, and be at peace with that. I saw a youtube interview of an addict who said he started taking painkillers regularly because he saw House doing it. Surely the writers didn’t know they were setting up some kid in suburban America up for addiction by giving him that mannerism

Unexpectedly? The whole point of publishing an idea or art piece is to influence people. Sure, some people will misinterpret it, but it should be pretty obvious that if you make a heroically brilliant protagonist dismissive of an opioid addiction that some people are going to think that's cool, especially if you're portraying that on TV. That's why Burgess wrote: > I should not have written the book because of this d…

> The whole point of publishing an idea or art piece is to influence people.

As an author, I throughly disagree with this statement. Humans like to tell stories and entertain each other.

My primary goal for publishing my stories is for people to find them enjoyable. Some of my stories have a secondary goal of showing less common perspectives for the purpose of introducing people to ideas they may not have considered.

Any idea can influence someone, but does not mean all ideas are published to influence.

Post reply on HN