Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

tokyodev.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 106 posts

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#61

Post by callalex »

stackedinserter wrote: post #32
gyomu wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I once had the CEO of an early stage, venture backed SF startup I worked for confide to me: “you know, every time we interview a woman in her late 20s/early 30s, I just have to wonder if she’ll take maternity leave 6 months in to working with us. As a startup we just can’t afford that”. Of course the public face of the company was all about fighting inequality, supporting diversity, etc.

But startups really can't afford it, what else can they do?

Civilized governments pay the mother’s current salary for a set period of time. Is a great idea.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#62

Post by zeroCalories »

jalapenos wrote: post #14
coldcode wrote: post #4

If this is true, given their birth rate, they will have to change, or run out of people to do things.

A reminder Japan's birthrate isn't a special case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_f... Same as Spain and Jamaica, higher than China and Korea.

You probably want to look at overall population growth, as many countries have young immigrants that contribute to their growth.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#63

Post by swader999 »

Aeolun wrote: post #7
whatyesaid wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Age is pretty easily guessable by degree dates and your appearance, they don't need to ask it explicitly.

Maybe at some point it’s better to leave off your degree? Your 20 years of experience are a lot more important (and the 10 before those irrelevant).

I could audit a class and put that as the date. Still live near the same uni I graduated from.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#64

Post by YZF »

SoftTalker wrote: post #51
JKCalhoun wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at…

I'm in my 50s and I don't think I changed that much. I pushed back on all these things when I was in my 30s. I avoided going to work for companies that had reputation of being badly managed. I never asked "how high" when someone said "jump". Never. I was good at what I did and that was more than enough. I was always highly opinionated and independent and it was never a problem finding great teams where that was valued.

I still don't mind working longer hours when I'm excited about something.

The all-nighters are definitely gone. But that was basically when I hit 30 or so. And when I did work all night, it's because I enjoyed doing it and I could do it. I started as a teen on personal projects.

On the pro side, I've got enough experience that I avoid a lot of mistakes that I've made when I was younger, and I'm able to help the teams I lead avoid those same mistakes. That makes a huge difference.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#65

Post by neilv »

On age discrimination closer to home for US techbros...

Pretty early in one warm-fuzzy FAANG, around the time a friend of mine finished a big-name CS-ish advanced degree, and he was at an event where the FAANG was recruiting. It might've been a campus event.

At the event, he happened to overhear some of the 20-something recruiting representatives of the FAANG, making fun of a candidate they'd interviewed for being "old".

I didn't ask, but, based on the way he said it, he might've been the one they were making fun of. (Then again, he's always defending others, and might've just been very upset on someone else's behalf. Though, if he'd been defending someone else, he probably would've ripped those representatives a new one, at least three different ways.)

I think he was still in his 30s, despite two successful earlier careers (one as an old school tech-ish entrepreneur). He went to the gym and was fit, but he looked like what he was: a kid from humble upbringings, who'd seen some rough situations, including being gay when and where that was not OK, and had pulled himself up by his bootstraps, to success despite all that. And while also doing a lot of activism to help some of the most disadvantaged and persecuted, when it was unfashionable.

He showed some of that weathering, and -- I suspect this might've been a barrier with that group -- didn't look like an affluent Palo Alto recent-grad. So, "old". Or, if those airhead representatives had had HR training, they would've called it "culture fit".

Which is doubly ironic in his case, since, in principle, he was pretty much a poster-child for the warm-fuzzy FAANG's PR: socioeconomically-diverse, cross-disciplinary, whole-self, make-the-world-better, with LGBTQ+ sprinkles on top.

He seemed very disappointed in those representatives of the FAANG, and had some choice words about who that FAANG "was hiring now". And in the couple decades since, he never did go there, even though, on paper, it would've been the obvious choice at multiple points of his career accomplishments.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#66

Post by jalapenos »

zeroCalories wrote: post #62
jalapenos wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A reminder Japan's birthrate isn't a special case: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_f... Same as Spain and Jamaica, higher than China and Korea.

You probably want to look at overall population growth, as many countries have young immigrants that contribute to their growth.

No, I don't. I'm specifically commenting on the Japan birthrate trope they reiterated.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#67

Post by zeroCalories »

jalapenos wrote: post #66
zeroCalories wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably want to look at overall population growth, as many countries have young immigrants that contribute to their growth.

No, I don't. I'm specifically commenting on the Japan birthrate trope they reiterated.

I thought the topic was about countries running out of workers. Western countries are doing fine, as they're able to import workers.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#68

Post by neilv »

SoftTalker wrote: post #51
JKCalhoun wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We (at Apple) interviewed a guy who was about my age (and I was already in my 50's at that time, ha ha). The interview(s) went great as far as I could suss but when we, the interviewers, met to go around and give the potential hire a thumbs up or thumbs down — one guy on our team was decidedly thumbs down. Why was he thumbs down? "I don't think he's a good fit for the team." When pressed for what that means he simply…

There might be reasons you want to avoid hiring older software devs. I'm in my 50s. I've been through the death marches, the unrealistic goals, the 60-hour weeks, the last minute emergencies, the all-nighters trying to get a release out or trying to recover from the fallout of a poorly tested release. I won't do it anymore. Nobody I know who is my age will do that anymore. There's almost nothing that will keep me at…

> So if you're looking to hire someone who will ask "how high" when you say "jump" then you probably don't want to hire an older person.

That's not altogether true. And it's going to get misinterpreted by young startup founders without a lot of experience.

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#69

Post by xboxnolifes »

callalex wrote: post #57
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unemployment is just one factor in homelessness. Other factors are drugs (Japan is much more stricter), home availability (Japan has much less NIBMYies), etc.

Also most importantly the ability for the state to declare you mentally unfit and hold you against your will.

If you're being held, do you fall under homelessness?

Re: You're Too Old for That: Age Discrimination in Japan Tech

#70

Post by Terr_ »

bigstrat2003 wrote: post #47
alephnan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a case where statistics could prove of systemic discrimination and statistical anomalies

They can prove statistical anomalies, sure. But no amount of statistics can prove discrimination (contrary to popular belief these days).

> But no amount of statistics can prove

By that logic [0] no amount of data can prove anything, and the label "unproven" becomes meaningless.

(Especially if the twist-ending is that you're trapped in a dream and this conversation isn't happening.)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_demon

Post reply on HN