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HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

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Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#61

Post by ceejayoz »

logicchains wrote: post #57
ceejayoz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of people. In this case, it's pandering for votes/donations, but it's frequently to sell some alternative miracle cure or supplement. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/12/9936151... > That selling can be big business. One of the leading anti-vaccine advocates, Joseph Mercola, is believed to bring in millions each year through his companies, which sell an array of branded natural supplements, be…

If he only brings in millions, he's being trounced by the pharmaceutical companies that bring in billions. From a product that it's mandatory for children in some states to take, and for which pharmaceutical manufacturers are given special legal protection from liability. The perfect business model.

> If he only brings in millions, he's being trounced by the pharmaceutical companies that bring in billions.

Sure, but I look more askance at someone being paid millions for disproven bullshit than someone being paid billions for effective medical treatments. Both are motivated actors, but one's purely a bullshit artist.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#62

Post by logicchains »

chimeracoder wrote: post #56
pazimzadeh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why they recommend against it. I guess the monetary costs don't outweigh the benefits, but that's only if you care more about saving money than potentially preventing cancer. It's not like the vaccine going to hurt you. But the HPV vaccine is not particularly cheap, so it sounds like the insurance companies have lobbied against it or something. In my opinion men should also be vaccinated for it sin…

> I don't understand why they recommend against it. I guess the monetary costs don't outweigh the benefits, but that's only if you care more about saving money than potentially preventing cancer. It's not like the vaccine going to hurt you. All vaccines have a nonzero risk of adverse outcomes. That can be as simple as the risk of physical injury due to incorrect administration of the needle. That's weighed against th…

[flagged]

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#63

Post by ceejayoz »

logicchains wrote: post #62
chimeracoder wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why they recommend against it. I guess the monetary costs don't outweigh the benefits, but that's only if you care more about saving money than potentially preventing cancer. It's not like the vaccine going to hurt you. All vaccines have a nonzero risk of adverse outcomes. That can be as simple as the risk of physical injury due to incorrect administration of the needle. That's weighed against th…

[flagged]

> It's still the riskiest pharmaceutical product the average young person will take.

That'll almost certainly be Tylenol.

> No other pharmaceutical product has been deemed so risky that it couldn't exist unless people were prevented from suing its manufacturers.

That's not why the program exists. It was deemed risky for the national security of the United States to lose its ability to manufacture vaccines because twelve lay people in a jury room decide to bankrupt a drug company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compen...

"The National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP or NVICP) was established by the 1986 National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA), passed by the United States Congress in response to a threat to the vaccine supply due to a 1980s scare over the DPT vaccine. Despite the belief of most public health officials that claims of side effects were unfounded, large jury awards had been given to some plaintiffs, most DPT vaccine makers had ceased production, and officials feared the loss of herd immunity."

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#64

Post by logicchains »

ceejayoz wrote: post #61
logicchains wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he only brings in millions, he's being trounced by the pharmaceutical companies that bring in billions. From a product that it's mandatory for children in some states to take, and for which pharmaceutical manufacturers are given special legal protection from liability. The perfect business model.

> If he only brings in millions, he's being trounced by the pharmaceutical companies that bring in billions. Sure, but I look more askance at someone being paid millions for disproven bullshit than someone being paid billions for effective medical treatments. Both are motivated actors, but one's purely a bullshit artist.

How do you know it's effective medical treatment when the industry spends tens of billions of dollars on advertising and lobbying to convince you it's an effective treatment and suppress any negative press on it?

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#65

Post by ksenzee »

londons_explore wrote: post #45
pazimzadeh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why they recommend against it. I guess the monetary costs don't outweigh the benefits, but that's only if you care more about saving money than potentially preventing cancer. It's not like the vaccine going to hurt you. But the HPV vaccine is not particularly cheap, so it sounds like the insurance companies have lobbied against it or something. In my opinion men should also be vaccinated for it sin…

Since nearly everyone is infected with HPV, if you've had sex with a few people you're almost certainly already infected and therefore the vaccine will be of no benefit. I guess if you were 50 and still a virgin, and planning to change that, it might be worth it.

Or you’ve been monogamous but are now getting divorced, or whatever. Not that uncommon.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#66

Post by ksenzee »

echelon wrote: post #43
ceejayoz wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll update that to "The CDC doesn't recommend it", in that case.

> I'll update that to "The CDC doesn't recommend it", in that case. As a native speaker, even that language feels as though the CDC discourages vaccination despite the literal meaning not implying that. This is a case where it's probably best to be more verbose and explain in full details. I don't know why the CDC themselves choose to use this language. It's confusing.

Agreed. I’d rather see “doesn’t actively recommend” or “is neutral” or something.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#68

Post by ksenzee »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #12

The continuing focus on cervical cancer and women’s sexual health in the context of HPV (vaccination) is my biggest pet peeve ever. HPV causes penile, anal, mouth-throat and cervical cancer. I‘d argue that all of those cancers are much, much worse than cervical cancer. After all, they can cause permanent disfigurement, chronic pain, inability to ever speak again and loss of the penis. Infertility? Woe is me! Anyone w…

Cervical cancer kills. I don’t think you mean “it’s worse for a man to lose his penis than for a woman to die” but that’s how it’s coming across. And that’s unfortunate because your point is entirely valid: men are not nearly terrified enough of HPV.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#69

Post by ceejayoz »

logicchains wrote: post #64
ceejayoz wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If he only brings in millions, he's being trounced by the pharmaceutical companies that bring in billions. Sure, but I look more askance at someone being paid millions for disproven bullshit than someone being paid billions for effective medical treatments. Both are motivated actors, but one's purely a bullshit artist.

How do you know it's effective medical treatment when the industry spends tens of billions of dollars on advertising and lobbying to convince you it's an effective treatment and suppress any negative press on it?

I look around and don't see measles cases anywhere.

Re: HPV vaccine study finds zero cases of cervical cancer among women vaccinated <14

#70

Post by alfor »

gnicholas wrote: post #53

I recently heard a doctor mention that cervical cancer typically crops up around age 40. As a result, a study like this is a bit premature. It's not bad news, of course, but it's also not exactly good news.

Study like this are very good to push government to pay vaccination to all kids as early as possible.

In Québec they did the vaccination to all the kids at 12yo, boys and girls.

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