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About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

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Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that moving the phone from the place I left it would promote it from "lost" to "stolen". Can you now envision a conversation between this passenger and the pharmacy clerk: "I found this phone in some car" "What do you want me to do about it?" "Hold on to it until some guy I don't know comes to claim it?" "We don't want this personal property! Go away!" [Waymo car is gone now] [Passenger absconds with phon…

Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft. And it's not that crazy to leave lost property with a nearby business (presumably a trusted one)- sure they could say no but then you could just find another way to return the device. Also why would you not be able to track it any more if they left it at the pharmacy, it's not like the Find My Device feature only works in Waymos. I gu…

> Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft.

Tell me more about how I somehow gave consent to that. Also, tell me more about how a stranger holding a random found device authenticates a caller as the owner of said device.

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#62
post #5
post #2

This took quite a while to get ready but I do believe it prevents 99.9% of the theft cases mentioned. I am downloading it right now.

Even if it prevents reselling the phone, it doesn't prevent the phone from being stolen. It would be a dumb criminal to leave you your phone to allow you to immediately call the police if you've been mugged. Just take the phone, trash it literally placing it in a bin or destroying it or both. At the end of the day, you still don't have the phone whether the thief profits from it or not. All this will do is prevent cr…

You can't really prevent "I stole your phone just to cause chaos". What Apple did with Find My was to remove the financial incentive to steal phones. What Apple does with this is protecting your iCloud account from someone who knows your passcode. (I would imagine that most people in relationships know their partner's passcode. Sometimes relationships sour.)

What prevents "I stole your phone just to cause chaos" is the risk/reward profile. Even though your phone is useless to someone that stole it, it's still theft, and you'll still have to face consequences if caught. If the incentive is "I'll be able to buy $1200 worth of shit", then people are probably going to take their chances with getting caught. If it's "I'll get nothing except the satisfaction of smashing someone else's electronics", then most people won't take their chances.

With the whole "knowing your passcode doesn't help" situation, it makes the long tail crimes even more difficult. "Tell me your passcode or I'll shoot you" no longer works, for example. It makes the crime significantly more difficult to commit, and requires committing crimes that carry significantly longer sentences. (Armed robbery turns into kidnapping. You could be looking at the rest of your life in prison for $300 in someone's checking account. Not worth it to most people.)

At the end of the day, there is only so much you can do. The rest is your insurance company's problem. The fewer viable attacks there are against you, and the less often they happen, the less your premiums are. (I actually don't know if there is insurance for this. I should check.)

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft. And it's not that crazy to leave lost property with a nearby business (presumably a trusted one)- sure they could say no but then you could just find another way to return the device. Also why would you not be able to track it any more if they left it at the pharmacy, it's not like the Find My Device feature only works in Waymos. I gu…

> Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft. Tell me more about how I somehow gave consent to that. Also, tell me more about how a stranger holding a random found device authenticates a caller as the owner of said device.

Unnecessarily rude and combative reply. The GP is clearly talking about the hypothetical scenario where you consent to her leaving it at a pharmacy - which certainly makes a lot more sense than just leaving it in a car. You said she offered to leave it at a pharmacy. Then didn't. So it doesn't seem likely she was going to do anything without thinking she was allowed to.

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#64
post #49
post #30

This also solves a somewhat unique problem I experienced recently with iCloud keychain where all your passwords are only as secure as your passcode (and anyone that knows it). I had to hand my phone over to a third party repairer. This would mean they needed to know my passcode so I wanted to lock down the phone to allow them to perform whatever diagnostic steps they might need but to restrict access to the wallet an…

You took unnecessary risk. Wipe your device before handing it over, and restore it from a backup after the repair. Also consider evil maid, or other kinds of backdoors (like jailbreaks).

I wiped mine, but then a couple of hours before my appointment for a battery replacement they called and said due to heavy snow the techs could not get, and gave me a new appointment a couple of days later.

I didn't want to fully restore the phone for just a couple of days, so just set it up with a temporary passcode and signed in to an Apple ID I normally do not use [1], so that I could use it for that couple of days without things asking me to sign in.

After the battery replacement I then wiped it and restored from a backup under my normal Apple ID.

This mostly worked, except it messed up my Longest Move Streak with my Apple Watch. I'm not sure if this was just due to the wiping the phone part, or the having the phone on a different Apple ID than the watch for a couple days, or something else.

What the Fitness app tells me about the streak now is just weird.

The streak started on 2019-05-07 and I've not missed a day since then. The battery replacement was on 2022-12-21.

When I checked the streak in Fitness on 2023-02-04 it told me that:

  My longest streak was 39 days ending 2023-02-03
  My current streak was 1368 days
Note that it is reporting a longest streak that is entirely within what it is reporting is my current streak.

17 days later, 2023-02-21, it was reporting:

  My longest streak was 41 days ending on 2023-02-20
  My current streak was 1385 days
Note that when it thinks that the longest streak started was sometime during the previous longest streak, so that makes no sense.

A few months later, 2023-09-23, it was:

  My longest streak was 37 days ending on 2023-09-23
  My current streak was 1600 days

I hadn't checked between that last and now. Checking now, on 2024-01-22, I get:

  My longest streak was 1710 days ending on 2024-01-11
  My current streak is 1720 days
That's better in that now it thinks the longest streak and current streak started at the same time, which is correct. But it still has the longest streak in the interior of the current streak which should not be possible.

[1] I've got two Apple IDs because originally you couldn't use the same account for iTunes and their cloud service, and so everyone who wanted to use both had to have two accounts. Later they made it so one account could use both.

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#65
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft. Tell me more about how I somehow gave consent to that. Also, tell me more about how a stranger holding a random found device authenticates a caller as the owner of said device.

Unnecessarily rude and combative reply. The GP is clearly talking about the hypothetical scenario where you consent to her leaving it at a pharmacy - which certainly makes a lot more sense than just leaving it in a car. You said she offered to leave it at a pharmacy. Then didn't . So it doesn't seem likely she was going to do anything without thinking she was allowed to.

> which certainly makes a lot more sense than just leaving it in a car.

Why? I am a Waymo customer. I left it in the car, and so the service has a policy to collect the item and return it to their customer. Some random store where I don't go, all bets are off.

I was able to contact Waymo and discuss the lost item and they were able to recover it because it was left in the car. That is a success. I was also able to retrieve the item from their Depot because their Lost & Found process works. That is a 100% success.

It was unclear in my original comment, but the passenger's offer to leave it at a pharmacy was in a text message to my emergency contact, who didn't reply. I heard about that bit after-the-fact. All I told the passenger, repeatedly, was, "please leave it where you found it in the car" because Waymo would be able to work that out with me, a customer.

A few months ago, I lost the front door key to my apartment. The leasing office was closing in 5 minutes. I needed a loaner key, and I had no ID. I offered to leave my phone (one in the same) as collateral. They were extremely reluctant to be holding on to that instead of an ID. They said they'd make a one-time exception.

Phones are not really things that strangers like to hold on to, in case you've not noticed. If you are admitted to a hospital or jail or something, they get really jumpy about putting your electronics in a locker. Partly having to do with the likelihood of fire or explosion, the volume and value of personal data on those things, and their trackability. The best course of action for a lost device is you leave it where you found it, because that's the owner's best hope of retracing their path and finding it again.

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#66
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unnecessarily rude and combative reply. The GP is clearly talking about the hypothetical scenario where you consent to her leaving it at a pharmacy - which certainly makes a lot more sense than just leaving it in a car. You said she offered to leave it at a pharmacy. Then didn't . So it doesn't seem likely she was going to do anything without thinking she was allowed to.

> which certainly makes a lot more sense than just leaving it in a car. Why? I am a Waymo customer. I left it in the car, and so the service has a policy to collect the item and return it to their customer. Some random store where I don't go, all bets are off. I was able to contact Waymo and discuss the lost item and they were able to recover it because it was left in the car. That is a success. I was also able to re…

I'm glad it worked out in this occasion - it's definitely a success and a credit to both Waymo's processes and also the n people who were in the car after you and didn't steal it. But it just as easily could have disappeared after this woman offered to put it in a more secure location (in the hands of an employee at a business is more secure than a car that can be accessed by essentially anyone at any time).

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#67
post #46
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> She offered to leave the phone in a pharmacy across town! I don't know how that would've helped. Well for one, the pharmacy isn't moving.

It's also not leaving the phone at the mercy of an unknowable number of future Waymo customers until it got back to the depot.

You mean the Waymo cars that are bristling with dozens of cameras and sensors? The Waymo service where I immediately contacted Support and informed them, so they could recall the vehicle or have it meet a worker who could search it? Dunno, dude.

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once a thief has stolen his 10th iPhone that he can't do anything with, he'll probably be less likely to bother stealing iPhones. If anything it's a liability since it can be tracked as long as it still has some battery. Theft isn't just for the whole device, it's also for parts. By making the part market so difficult they essentially create a black market for it in third world countries where just the phone's batt…

That’s why they require that you activate parts as well. Motherboard, screen and face id sensors are useless. The battery isn’t worth much, compared to newer Chinese knockoffs

The screen is still usable no? It just disables true tone IIRC.

A day's wage in Colombia is about $10-15 and people tend to preference and pay more for original parts since the cost of the device is too high to risk. An iPhone X costs close to a month's salary. They even tend to avoid third party cables or chargers as a consequence.

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#69
post #60

I don’t know if Brazil was one of the places that convince Apple to do that, but we have a huge problem of mobile phones robbery with that aim to access the bank apps to drain accounts dry. In a quite resourceful way (social engineering, process and system exploits) these criminal organizations will jump all the hoops (2FA, Face Recognition) and manage to access most of those apps.

It’s a big problem is the USA also. It’s been in the news in prime time for about a year. They’ve been really slow to address it

Re: About Stolen Device Protection for iPhone

#70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft. And it's not that crazy to leave lost property with a nearby business (presumably a trusted one)- sure they could say no but then you could just find another way to return the device. Also why would you not be able to track it any more if they left it at the pharmacy, it's not like the Find My Device feature only works in Waymos. I gu…

> Moving the phone from the place it was left with consent of the owner is not theft. Tell me more about how I somehow gave consent to that. Also, tell me more about how a stranger holding a random found device authenticates a caller as the owner of said device.

> The Waymo passenger answered and there was much giggling. She kept saying she didn't know what to do. I said just leave it in the car.

I inferred that you discussed this with the person, since you indicated you talked to them via voice. That would have been the perfect time to arrange for return of the device.

I guess after reading between the lines, this person didn't suggest this action during the voice call, only via the text you discovered afterwards?

Elsewhere you mention that leaving the phone in the car was the best course of action, but the next person in that waymo could easily have swiped it.

I suppose a middle ground could have been to tell them to put it in the back seat pocket or something so that it was a bit more hidden while you contacted waymo support to let them know to retrieve it.

> Also, tell me more about how a stranger holding a random found device authenticates a caller as the owner of said device.

This is a little much. That's quite a threat model you are operating under. It explains why you immediately wiped. I think most people are not concerned with that contingency.

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