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Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

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Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#61

Post by peterallport »

Apple must allow alternate payment modes without imposing a gatekeeper tax. It must be consistent without exceptions (i.e. not just Amazon). The issue is not the gratuitous fee, it is the lack of choice.

iOS is more ubiquitous than macOS yet more restrictive--it cannot last. This entitlement is so restrictive -- it just seems vindictive. Apple's market share and success means additional responsibility. The argument that it's their App Store and therefore they can do whatever they want is a dubious defence. They owe their loyal developers more than this.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#62

Post by HatchedLake721 »

kibwen wrote: post #53
massysett wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps Apple’s hardware is unmatched in part because they profit from it by using the very mechanisms you don’t like. The engineering resources to focus on perfect hardware aren’t cheap. There is plenty of junk hardware out there that gives you more freedom.

If having good hardware means spending a lot on hardware development, then the price of the hardware can reflect that, rather than being subsidized by unrelated business segments.

Yes, let’s teach one of the most successful companies in the world how to price their products and do business.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#63

Post by huytersd »

peterallport wrote: post #61

Apple must allow alternate payment modes without imposing a gatekeeper tax. It must be consistent without exceptions (i.e. not just Amazon). The issue is not the gratuitous fee, it is the lack of choice. iOS is more ubiquitous than macOS yet more restrictive--it cannot last. This entitlement is so restrictive -- it just seems vindictive. Apple's market share and success means additional responsibility. The argument t…

They have loyal devs and a monetizable ecosystem for devs exactly because they have their policies in place. Apple doesn’t cut corners with short term thinking like your comment.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#64

Post by a_wild_dandan »

threeseed wrote: post #57
NoPedantsThanks wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how Apple thinks they're going to measure the transactions that take place. Simply clicking on the link and visiting the third-party-payment site doesn't prove anything, because the user could bail out before paying.

Because iOS apps talk to the Notarisation Service on launch. So they know total app installs as well as the installs purchased from the App Store.

That metric doesn't work accurately even in the simplest case (buying an app), let alone for more nuanced transactions -- in-app purchases, subscription tiers, etc.

It's unclear how how Apple-the-middle-man can insert itself to effectively rent seek from customers/developers now.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#65

Post by rootusrootus »

annoyingnoob wrote: post #17
dvt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is two big corporations arguing over which one makes more profit from you. This slightly oversimplifies the situation, as Apple's policy is pretty clearly anti-competitive and, more importantly, anti-developer. As a developer, you have to bump your prices because of the Apple tax. (And even as a consumer, prices are pushed up. Let's say you want to sell X for $10; too bad: you now have to sell it for $12 if yo…

As a developer, if Apple's fees went away, would you drop your price or just make more profit? Prices may have been pushed up but there is little incentive for them to ever come down.

As I recall, there are examples of things you can purchase both on and off the App Store, and the prices are indeed different. Though that may have more to do with the off-store purchase going directly to the seller and not another app store equivalent.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#66

Post by matthew-wegner »

ado__dev wrote: post #23
threeseed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because this isn't a tax on web purchases. As a developer you need to pay the 30% commission similar to how if you're using Unreal Engine you need to pay 5%. You can legitimately argue this fee is way too high but the courts have already said that they are allowed to charge it.

I don't think the issue is how high the fee is, the issue is Apple forcing developers to use their payments platform. Apple is within its right to charge whatever they want. Unreal Engine is free to charge whatever fee they want. But you're not forced to use UE. You are forced to use Apple IAP system, or their alternative now, is to allow you to use your own system, but still pay them a ridiculous fee, for what exact…

From apps. That Apple is hosting, and providing testing and updating machinery for, along with many backend services, SDKs, etc. What is the fair price for that?

27% is absurdly high, for sure, but you seem to be arguing from a position that it should be free...?

The other large discussion thread has already been linked with more specifics. The very short version is that Apple has been arguing the fees are to run their services, and the commission has historically been a convenient way to collect them. This is them collecting those fees outside of their payment systems, because legally they have to allow such a thing.

So you could release an app for "free" on the app store, and require side channel payment to really use it. You're just going to have to pay for the quotation marks.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#67

Post by 0xfaded »

huytersd wrote: post #63
peterallport wrote: post #61

Apple must allow alternate payment modes without imposing a gatekeeper tax. It must be consistent without exceptions (i.e. not just Amazon). The issue is not the gratuitous fee, it is the lack of choice. iOS is more ubiquitous than macOS yet more restrictive--it cannot last. This entitlement is so restrictive -- it just seems vindictive. Apple's market share and success means additional responsibility. The argument t…

They have loyal devs and a monetizable ecosystem for devs exactly because they have their policies in place. Apple doesn’t cut corners with short term thinking like your comment.

Their long term thinking includes leveraging bullying over their iMessage lock-in to ensure market capture of children.

I believe there are leaked emails floating around which pretty much irrefutablly confirm this.

Re: Apple's bad faith 27% tax on web purchases

#70

Post by satvikpendem »

huytersd wrote: post #63
peterallport wrote: post #61

Apple must allow alternate payment modes without imposing a gatekeeper tax. It must be consistent without exceptions (i.e. not just Amazon). The issue is not the gratuitous fee, it is the lack of choice. iOS is more ubiquitous than macOS yet more restrictive--it cannot last. This entitlement is so restrictive -- it just seems vindictive. Apple's market share and success means additional responsibility. The argument t…

They have loyal devs and a monetizable ecosystem for devs exactly because they have their policies in place. Apple doesn’t cut corners with short term thinking like your comment.

By that logic, we should have let Standard Oil or AT&T do as they pleased, since they too had loyal customers.
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