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Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

nytimes.com

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Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#61

Post by fleeno »

I just did a long mile road trip in my 2023 Model Y LR, and it wasn't a lot of fun. Even in the 30Fs I would get around 200 miles of range. I tried to get to the next charger with at least 15-20% just in case.

One example leg was 156mi using 84% of battery in 30F weather. The stats said I lost 13.1% due to a 9.5mph wind, and 1.3% for low tire pressure. I topped the tires up after that one. When it was well below 0 I was doing less. I still got where I was going, but I spent so much time charging, and it's not cheap enough that the time cost made any sense.

Some of my legs really did need close to 100% to get to the next charger with any margin for error. That means sitting at a charger for 30-60 minutes at times. Several of the chargers were in locations that didn't feel safe, so I actually took a longer route back to hit different chargers.

Keep in mind that probably like most people, long road trips are infrequent. In daily use it's charged every morning (at cheap rates) and ready to go, no matter the temperature. Plus I warm it up without needing to open the garage! I will take another car for a long trip now, but I still like having an EV for daily driving.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#62

Post by bryanlarsen »

NDizzle wrote: post #43
GnarfGnarf wrote: post #34

Let's put things in perspective. In Calgary, and many other cold cities, every apartment's outdoor parking lot has outlets where you plug in your ICE's block heater and battery blanket. Without them, you probably won't start your car this morning. When I lived in Calgary, I sometimes had to spray a can of ether into the carburetor to get my car started.

Yes. And then when you left, did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? Did you have stops along the way to add fuel in a reasonable amount of time? Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? I want EVs to be there too, but they just aren't.

If the car was plugged in before I left, then yes to all three.

The first is always true for at least a Tesla and you use the nav. A Tesla knows it's cold outside. If you punch a destination into your nav, it'll tell it what percentage will remain when you get there and it's always accurate.

The second is true if you charge the car while it's warm. We travelled from Ottawa to Quebec City in the cold, stopping to charge 3 times, and it always charged quickly. We knew enough to charge before parking the car rather than charging after the car has been parked.

The third is true if the car is plugged in and you tell it when you want to leave. It prewarms the cabin & battery.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#63

Post by PaulHoule »

xyst wrote: post #48
tw04 wrote: post #6

90% of the complaints appear to be from folks who have no ability to charge at home. I would agree with the sentiment that if you have to drive any significant distance daily, and live in an apartment where you can’t charge at home, having an EV is going to be a giant pain and it might be a little too soon to go that route. I’d imagine we’re still several years away from having robust enough charging infrastructure a…

The real blunder in this country is the lack of viable alternative transportation options in a majority of the nation. Visited NYC recently and didn’t need to rent a car. Primarily took the bus, ferry, and rail car/trains. In some cases I just walked from my hotel to the destination. Could have rented one of the e-bikes as well. Transportation costs for just 1 week were less than $100 (a quarter of this was because o…

... but a small apartment costs $4000 in NYC which would cover the payment, gas, insurance and everything on two or three big SUVs. Without some revolution in the cost structure of urban life, "transit friendly" is going to look like going from the frying pan to the fire for most people.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#64

Post by thomasmg »

mminer237 wrote: post #11

It seems like electric cars necessitate garages. Basically all these problems seem to be caused by people leaving them outside unplugged overnight, which I don't know how they deal with during the summer even. I can't imagine driving a car I have to stop for an hour to publicly charge every week. I guess it would be fine if you could charge it on the street or whatever, but you would still be using a lot of power jus…

A garage is not needed, and you don't need to plug it in overnight. (My electric car is in a carport, and I only plug it in charge is below 50%.)

Yes, it is inconvenient (and likely more expensive) if you can't charge the car at home, or at work. Cities have electric street lights, but curb-side EV charging is rare so far. I guess that will change.

Heating the battery does need some energy, but heating the interior of the car (for the passengers) needs more. But driving needs most energy, of course. Electric cars typically have a heat pump by the way. Gas cars don't need that because they can use the waste heat of the engine, which is otherwise lost.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#65

Post by 1970-01-01 »

the-alchemist wrote: post #59

What a crappy article. One can't complain NYT is too pro-EV. This problem is a combination of growing pains, uneducated EV drivers, old EVs with crappy batteries, some bad infrastructure, and EV manufacturers that don't put enough diagnostics. 1. Ask anyone who has lived in these kinds of cold temperatures. Cold starts in ICEs are always a problem. in upstate NY, you always need a pair of jumper cables ready. you mig…

>educate their users a bit.

This is something they could do immediately. Send a push notification showing how tomorrow's bitter cold forecast will reduce their vehicle's range by XX%.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#67

Post by itishappy »

NDizzle wrote: post #43
GnarfGnarf wrote: post #34

Let's put things in perspective. In Calgary, and many other cold cities, every apartment's outdoor parking lot has outlets where you plug in your ICE's block heater and battery blanket. Without them, you probably won't start your car this morning. When I lived in Calgary, I sometimes had to spray a can of ether into the carburetor to get my car started.

Yes. And then when you left, did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? Did you have stops along the way to add fuel in a reasonable amount of time? Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? I want EVs to be there too, but they just aren't.

> did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel?

My ICE almost stranded me during the recent freeze. Conditions affect fuel economy for all vehicles.

> Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin?

This feels like an imagined problem. EVs heat their cabin more efficiently than ICEs. If you end up off the road during a storm (been there) an EV will last longer for the same fill level. They also tend to heat up faster due to not having to adjust the entire thermal mass of the engine block. I used to leave my heat off in my ol' minivan during most commutes. If there wasn't snow on the windshield for me to clean off while the car warmed up, it wouldn't heat up fast enough.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#68

Post by NDizzle »

epistasis wrote: post #57
NDizzle wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who has driven long distances in the cold (where you can calculate your mpg easily, as you are just driving all day, what else are you doing?) knows that is bullshit. My van that gets 20-25 mpg in the summer gets... 20-25 mpg in the winter. The only time it's affected is when I'm crossing the rockies. Mountains...

And as somebody who drives an EV, occasionally in cold weather, I would also assert based on my personal experience that losing range is "bullshit" but I also realize that others have different experiences.

My RAV4 prime with "42 miles of range" hits 0 in 22 miles of freeway driving with the temps around 10F outside right now.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#69

Post by bryanlarsen »

_ea1k wrote: post #28
aa_is_op wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused that these people are confused. Why did they buy an EV if they don't have a place to charge it. It's like buying a surfboard while living in Iowa.

A lot of them didn't buy them. There are a lot of Uber/Lyft drivers up there and many use the Hertz Uber rental program ( https://www.uber.com/us/en/drive/vehicle-solutions/hertz/tes... ). I'd guess that most of these would use superchargers as their idle lots to top up between rides. I'd guess that this usually works pretty well, but with winter and a higher than normal number of broken chargers, those became more c…

From what I heard, a lot of those chargers weren't broken. What happened in Chicago was that Tesla drivers plugged in, and the car didn't immediately start charging because it had to warm the battery first. So they did the universal signal for a broken charger and left the cord dangling rather than hooking it. It then froze.

IIRC on a Tesla the car screen displays that it's warming the battery, but the app on the phone doesn't. The phone screen just says that it's charging with 0 amps.

Re: Electric Car Owners Confront a Harsh Foe: Cold Weather

#70

Post by NDizzle »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #62
NDizzle wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. And then when you left, did you have an accurate gauge of exactly how far you could travel? Did you have stops along the way to add fuel in a reasonable amount of time? Did you have reliable, strong heat in the cabin? I want EVs to be there too, but they just aren't.

If the car was plugged in before I left, then yes to all three. The first is always true for at least a Tesla and you use the nav. A Tesla knows it's cold outside. If you punch a destination into your nav, it'll tell it what percentage will remain when you get there and it's always accurate. The second is true if you charge the car while it's warm. We travelled from Ottawa to Quebec City in the cold, stopping to char…

You had to stop 3 times for a 275 mile drive?!
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