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32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

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Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#61

Post by [deleted] »

voidwtf wrote: post #34
tredre3 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They handle memory management quite differently Think different (tm). Snark aside you're right, Macs are much better at memory management than Linux, swap handling in particular. But that's a very low bar. > the usage patterns on those devices is significantly different. You're right, Mac users tend to run more multimedia productivity tools that benefit greatly from more RAM! > You can get higher memory Apple kit i…

Most of the people buying an $800 MacBook Air or lower memory variant of an Apple device are not worried about RAM and don’t use it in such a way that it matters. Yes, if you’re a professional using a macOS device you can pay the $400 premium for the highest memory variant. You either have the money to pay it, or the product justifies the amount. They are charging what their customers are willing to pay, it’s also so…

[deleted]

Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#62

Post by palata »

melling wrote: post #42
evanjrowley wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>16GB RAM to read and write text and see images... I think it just says it all. More could be said about the bloatware, telemetry, surveillance, and adtech built into Windows. Hard to imagine that 1GB was "a big deal" in my lifetime.

I bought a 16GB MacBook Pro in 2013, which I still use. Why the F 32GB isn’t standard by now is ridiculous. Screw all the “sloppy code” bullshit talk. I’ve been buying computers since they had 64K. People have been having the same “sloppy code” talk for decades.

Because it has been the same problem for decades: the more RAM developers have the more RAM their code uses. There is nothing special for 32GB, it was always the case.

Only when the resources are limited do we see optimization being done seriously.

Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#63

Post by palata »

Ekaros wrote: post #51
steveBK123 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the developer hardware, its that every last available CPU cycle & KB of ram gets consumed by ad/tracking bullshit on every website we visit.

I'm starting to think that no one in our industry have any actual pride in their work. Just slapping layers and layers of stuff together until it barely works and then shipping it... And somehow they should be paid lot of money for this... And most of this stuff isn't even doing anything that special or demanding, which is the sad part.

> And somehow they should be paid lot of money for this...

They get paid to be productive from the point of view of the company paying them. And by slapping layers of stuff together until it barely works, apparently they make profit for their company.

They are not paid to write optimized (or "good" or "useful for society") code.

Which is sad, no question asked. But it makes perfect sense given the system we live in.

Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#64

Post by cybercatgurrl »

palata wrote: post #63
Ekaros wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm starting to think that no one in our industry have any actual pride in their work. Just slapping layers and layers of stuff together until it barely works and then shipping it... And somehow they should be paid lot of money for this... And most of this stuff isn't even doing anything that special or demanding, which is the sad part.

> And somehow they should be paid lot of money for this... They get paid to be productive from the point of view of the company paying them. And by slapping layers of stuff together until it barely works, apparently they make profit for their company. They are not paid to write optimized (or "good" or "useful for society") code. Which is sad, no question asked. But it makes perfect sense given the system we live in.

As someone who has seen shit code shoveled into the fire repeatedly, this is precisely the reasoning. Make money faster is the only reason a company needs to throw quality out the window. Even though accumulating tech debt like that will likely slow them down.

Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#65

Post by Grimblewald »

palata wrote: post #62
melling wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a 16GB MacBook Pro in 2013, which I still use. Why the F 32GB isn’t standard by now is ridiculous. Screw all the “sloppy code” bullshit talk. I’ve been buying computers since they had 64K. People have been having the same “sloppy code” talk for decades.

Because it has been the same problem for decades: the more RAM developers have the more RAM their code uses. There is nothing special for 32GB, it was always the case. Only when the resources are limited do we see optimization being done seriously.

while slop probably plays a part, there is a lot going on that is now possible that wasn't previously. Many of the things we take for granted wouldn't be possible without the extra memory. Do I need 16gb to read text and view images? no. I don't even need 1gb, but I do need that extra ram if I'd like to listen to music while I write text that is actively spell checked, while searching my open document against ones i've already written to look for reusable content while leaving my spreadsheets open, browsing with multiple tabs open, while handling some beefy data file a colleague has sent through, all of which sounds like a reasonable workday for many. Multitab browsing alone isn't some massive stroke of genius that no one had thought of prior, while clever it was also not present earlier because of technical limitations.

Sure I don't need 32gb to do all that, but who knows what fun things will come from having that extra budget?

Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#66

Post by blharr »

Grimblewald wrote: post #65
palata wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it has been the same problem for decades: the more RAM developers have the more RAM their code uses. There is nothing special for 32GB, it was always the case. Only when the resources are limited do we see optimization being done seriously.

while slop probably plays a part, there is a lot going on that is now possible that wasn't previously. Many of the things we take for granted wouldn't be possible without the extra memory. Do I need 16gb to read text and view images? no. I don't even need 1gb, but I do need that extra ram if I'd like to listen to music while I write text that is actively spell checked, while searching my open document against ones i'…

Obviously, large data files will need large memory, but aside from that, music and spellcheck take little memory, and web browsing takes so much

For 90% of browsing like searching and reading articles or watching video or using email, all of those worked on the almost same functionality 10 years ago with a fraction of the memory.

Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#67

Post by palata »

Grimblewald wrote: post #65
palata wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it has been the same problem for decades: the more RAM developers have the more RAM their code uses. There is nothing special for 32GB, it was always the case. Only when the resources are limited do we see optimization being done seriously.

while slop probably plays a part, there is a lot going on that is now possible that wasn't previously. Many of the things we take for granted wouldn't be possible without the extra memory. Do I need 16gb to read text and view images? no. I don't even need 1gb, but I do need that extra ram if I'd like to listen to music while I write text that is actively spell checked, while searching my open document against ones i'…

I would like to completely agree with that, but when my laptop consistently starts venting like crazy whenever I open a particular webpage, I have to blame the webpage.

An example I have is a food orders website, which takes 4 seconds and 10MB to load, where all I want to do is go unsubscribe for the weekly order (where I need to unsubscribe every week because it's opt-out, I guess it's better for them). This page is crap because it can, not because it brings some value it couldn't without using all that compute power.

Then as a software engineer, many colleagues literally say "memory is cheap" very often, which kind of hints towards the fact that they don't care about optimizing for memory :-).

I honestly cannot really think of something I do now that is really useful for me and that I was not already able to do 10 years ago (hint: I don't use a copilot to code).

Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#68

Post by palata »

cybercatgurrl wrote: post #64
palata wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And somehow they should be paid lot of money for this... They get paid to be productive from the point of view of the company paying them. And by slapping layers of stuff together until it barely works, apparently they make profit for their company. They are not paid to write optimized (or "good" or "useful for society") code. Which is sad, no question asked. But it makes perfect sense given the system we live in.

As someone who has seen shit code shoveled into the fire repeatedly, this is precisely the reasoning. Make money faster is the only reason a company needs to throw quality out the window. Even though accumulating tech debt like that will likely slow them down.

> accumulating tech debt like that will likely slow them down

Which I believe is not taken into account in the performance evaluations. How could you blame an employee for consequences that will happen in 2 years, when the employee has already been promoted for their good short-term results?

Re: 32GB of RAM is becoming the standard

#69

Post by snvzz »

transfire wrote: post #23

“Modern operating systems such as Windows 11 or macOS use additional RAM very efficiently” Hahahhahahhahhukaufkauf! (Excuse me while I clear my throat) Uh… my 7Mhz 512KB Amiga generally had a better UX.

>my 7Mhz 512KB Amiga generally had a better UX

True, although... on topic, 1MB became very needed by 1990-ish.

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