Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#61

Post by endisneigh » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:50 PM UTC

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #52

Good thing I didn’t read such a bullshit defeatist conclusion before I dropped 40 lbs 7 years ago (adopted sane diet, never gained it back) and dug myself out of a deep hole of alcohol dependence. haven’t beaten the habit of falling for engagement baiting headlines though i suppose do not let yourself believe you are weak or a victim

what a bizarre comment. the conclusion is hardly defeatist.

the TLDR of the article is that if you (for example) are struggling with focus, a strategy that is basically telling yourself to focus (while loud music is playing around you) will not yield as much success as removing distractions (turning off the music) in your environment, then trying to focus again.

the efficacy of the two strategies is dependent not entirely on ones fortitude, rather ability to craft an environment that plays to the strength of will, so to speak.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#62

Post by clwg » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:51 PM UTC

jawns wrote: post #28

I am not a smoker, but I recently read through Allan Carr's "Easy Way to Quit Smoking Without Willpower" book. (There is a similar book out there called the Easy Peasy Way to Quit Porn, for those who are struggling with that.) The tl;dr is that it's much harder to quit an addiction with the mindset, "This thing is great, but I'm going to deprive myself of it." Instead, you need to realize that you've been deceived an…

I was a smoker for over 20 years, then I switched to Juul - I was content. Nicotine is by far my favorite drug. I could smell again, and my stamina and breathing were noticeably improved.

When they started to ban the stronger vapes, my options were to go back to cigarettes, suffer withdrawal from a less potent nicotine concentration, buy one of those contraptions and start a hobby, or quit entirely.

I quit entirely, and it sucked. Luckily, there was a pandemic going on, so I could contain the 'blast radius', but it was very much a self-hate process to get through it - hating myself for smoking in the first place as a teenager, hating that I was controlled by something like that, and hating that I didn't have agency over my own cravings, and just hating because Nicotine withdrawal sucks.

I don't think I could have done it with a positive attitude and inner strength. I still miss nicotine, and if they brought back the stronger Juul's, I'd probably start again.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#63

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:51 PM UTC

elchief wrote: post #43

use your lack of will power to your advantage fill your fridge with healthy food, and force yourself to leave the house if you want junk food

Move to a small village with no services and 25 miles from the nearest town, so you'll have to drive for an hour round trip if you want junk food (or any food, actually).

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#64

Post by hotpotamus » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:52 PM UTC

peterleiser wrote: post #41

I_am_uncreative wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! If you eat too much, take up smoking instead. That's one old habit gone, and a new one added!

Reminds me of a friend who's New Year's resolution over 20 years ago was to pick up smoking. He tried a few times but just couldn't manage to start the habit.

Ah, I did this too, though it was actually a New Year’s Eve resolution to start smoking which I did successfully - had one cigarette with some friends who were planning on quitting as their New Year’s resolutions which I then joined with them as a new smoker. I was the only one able to follow through on that.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#65

Post by networkchad » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:52 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #61

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #52

Good thing I didn’t read such a bullshit defeatist conclusion before I dropped 40 lbs 7 years ago (adopted sane diet, never gained it back) and dug myself out of a deep hole of alcohol dependence. haven’t beaten the habit of falling for engagement baiting headlines though i suppose do not let yourself believe you are weak or a victim

what a bizarre comment. the conclusion is hardly defeatist. the TLDR of the article is that if you (for example) are struggling with focus, a strategy that is basically telling yourself to focus (while loud music is playing around you) will not yield as much success as removing distractions (turning off the music) in your environment, then trying to focus again. the efficacy of the two strategies is dependent not ent…

[dead]

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#66

Post by Lucky-026 » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:52 PM UTC

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #52

Good thing I didn’t read such a bullshit defeatist conclusion before I dropped 40 lbs 7 years ago (adopted sane diet, never gained it back) and dug myself out of a deep hole of alcohol dependence. haven’t beaten the habit of falling for engagement baiting headlines though i suppose do not let yourself believe you are weak or a victim

I didn't read this particular article but I've heard of other studies that express the same idea. The point isn't that you can't beat bad habits, its that the best way to beat bad habits is making them harder to do.

If you want to quit smoking you get rid of your cigarettes.

if you want to lose weight you throw away your junk food.

Keeping junk food in your house when you're trying to lose weight relies on self control and willpower to avoid eating in a caloric surplus. Same logic applies to not going grocery shopping when you haven't eaten all say since you're likely to indulge and buy some stuff you don't need for example

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#67

Post by analog31 » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:53 PM UTC

hinkley wrote: post #46

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I like to think of it is that it's possible to have willpower when I'm feeling strong and only have to make a big decision once - what's really hard is having to use that willpower over and over. Thus, I've always felt it's better to change your environment than trying to improve your willpower. For example, I got a ton of exercise when I lived in a city when the most convenient thing to do was walk everywher…

Buying groceries when you’re feeling good, and changing your route through the store to groom yourself for success instead of failure, are common, effective bits of advice for weight loss and healthy eating. Most of the garbage really is in the middle of the store, and I imagine myself diving into deep water to grab ketchup, soup, flour. Get in, get out, no sightseeing.

My shopping list is sequential by aisle, so I don't go down the aisle if it's not on my list.

I wonder if shopping online for delivery helps curb impulse buying

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#68

Post by arcastroe » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:53 PM UTC

maximus-decimus wrote: post #56

arcastroe wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't work at all. Ordering junk food is a few lazy taps on your phone whereas eating the healthy food requires forcing yourself to cook and prepare it as well as washing dishes afterwards

That's why you need Soylent^TM bottles, so that drinking them is even less effort! The way I see it, that's kinda the whole advantage of something like soylent.

+1, also look into Huel. I personally like it better than Soylent.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#69

Post by kaashif » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:53 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #61

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #52

Good thing I didn’t read such a bullshit defeatist conclusion before I dropped 40 lbs 7 years ago (adopted sane diet, never gained it back) and dug myself out of a deep hole of alcohol dependence. haven’t beaten the habit of falling for engagement baiting headlines though i suppose do not let yourself believe you are weak or a victim

what a bizarre comment. the conclusion is hardly defeatist. the TLDR of the article is that if you (for example) are struggling with focus, a strategy that is basically telling yourself to focus (while loud music is playing around you) will not yield as much success as removing distractions (turning off the music) in your environment, then trying to focus again. the efficacy of the two strategies is dependent not ent…

The conclusion may not be defeatist, but the conclusion is different from the subtitle of the article (and the title of the submission):

> Studies suggest that relying on will power is hopeless

Which would indeed be extremely defeatist.

Willpower and better strategies can both work in conjunction. Willpower is not entirely hopeless as a strategy.

Re: Studies suggest that relying on will power to break habits is hopeless (2019)

#70

Post by refactor_master » Sat, Jan 06, 2024, 10:53 PM UTC

antwerp1 wrote: post #3

It’s just like decision fatigue: your capacity for it diminishes the more you use it (within a given time range). Instead, carefully curate your identity . This is described well in Atomic Habits. Train yourself to think “I am just not the kind of person who does x.”

> Train yourself to think “I am just not the kind of person who does x.”

We are rarely who we really want to be. Yet, here we are. I’ve been trained, literally since infancy, to obey bedtime, but I’m writing this response an hour past my bedtime.