Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish more consumer devices supported multiple PSKs on the same SSID. It's a handy feature much better for airtime than creating multiple separate SSIDs and much better for sanity than 802.1x user or cert auth.
> I wish more consumer devices supported multiple PSKs on the same SSID Could you name any enterprise APs that do this, short of running your own custom AP software? As far as I know (would love to be corrected on this), Unifi APs can't do this, and they're at the very least "prosumer".
WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
61–70 of 201 posts
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#62EAP-TLS is generally a great practice, as EAP-PEAP is vulnerable to MITM issues (fix proposed in https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-josefsson-pppext-eap-t... but never adopted). For the use case cited -- blocking MAC spoofing, EAP-TLS doesn't quite solve it, it mainly only solves authentication. The outer layer is not wrapped with TLS and is instead based on an ephemeral session key. Additional work is needed to s…
If you're doing EAP-TLS wouldn't the ARP attack you're describing fail at the client when it's unable to verify the RADIUS server's certificate?
Correct, a wifi station client would not be attacked this way. As for the radius client -- the answer is it depends.
For many radius clients used by a common consumer AP, it's been possible for the spoofed radius to just say "okay, authenticated" to authorize itself -- and the shared secret is never used. It's worth noting that RADIUS may use MD5 with that shared secret, which is vulnerable to cracking attacks as well but I have not had to go down the rabbithole that far.
It would be interesting to try this against the Unifi AP brand named in the article and see how it handles it. My understanding is they run a custom Openwrt image so maybe they provide source code.
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#63I want to know why WPA3 doesn't have a mode where a password is used for the initial connection , but then the client and AP generate a keypair and each store their half and use that for all future connections. For all future connections, the AP can validate every client, and the client can validate that it is connecting to the same AP. The AP could have an interface to 'revoke' access to any single client if necessa…
You can already do this with hostapd under WPA3 or WPA2 - The password alone can identify each client, and activate different configs for each one.
Some commercial APs support this under different names but it's hard to make it work with RADIUS, which is usually necessary on larger installations.
But without preloaded certificates, the clients don't know that they're not connecting to a rogue access point.
Hotspot 2.0 was going to solve that part, but kind of died last year as the WiFi Alliance let their last KPI partnership die off.
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#64Personally I've essentially given up on depending on WiFi auth for anything important. For general access, segmenting various users, IOT etc for performance, monitoring and light privacy WPA-EAP and PPSKs with VLANs does some work as an initial first layer fine and in a simple reliable way that works with everything. It's a low pass filter.
But for all sensitive access I use internal Wireguard now. WiFi auth gets a client onto a restricted VLAN in the first place, but from there only a VPN will get to management webguis, sensitive services, or unrestricted internet access. Regrettably the design process for WPA3 was the same old mediocre industry affair. It's not worth trying to put many bandaids on vs just moving things to a higher level. As a practical matter WiFi also just isn't that fast vs high performance clients, it's not like WG has to handle tens of gigabits, so there isn't even any downside in performance.
WiFi auth at this point kinda feels like a polite lock on the screen door. Not useless at all, but anything really important should have other layers in front that are more secure by design from the ground up.
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#65> However, if you want a home network that’s simple to configure, easy for your guests to borrow, hassle-free, and that all of your Smart Home gadgets can connect to, then you should close this tab now Or do what I do: run multiple APs. I have my primary one, which is very tightly secured and monitored, and only gives access to my local VPN. I have a guest one, which is only as secure as any average AP and gets you i…
This is exactly what I do. IoT stuff sits on its own AP attached to a jailed LAN.
So do you have to switch the wifi on your phone to access the IoT stuff?
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#66> Toggle the switch on the Smallstep RADIUS Root CA to enable Full Trust. The Smallstep RADIUS Root CA is now trusted. What could possibly go wrong? How do you do this without trusting some external CA?
it's worth noting that hostapd has a built-in EAP server as well for running Radius.
check the config sample for "EAP server"
https://w1.fi/cgit/hostap/plain/hostapd/hostapd.conf
As for securing them, there's several labs security researchers provide for breaking into "enterprise wifi"
https://github.com/sensepost/shinai-fi https://github.com/r4ulcl/WiFiChallengeLab-docker
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#67EAP-TLS is generally a great practice, as EAP-PEAP is vulnerable to MITM issues (fix proposed in https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-josefsson-pppext-eap-t... but never adopted). For the use case cited -- blocking MAC spoofing, EAP-TLS doesn't quite solve it, it mainly only solves authentication. The outer layer is not wrapped with TLS and is instead based on an ephemeral session key. Additional work is needed to s…
Companies should be able to be sued for things like this (deliberately leaving such a big vulnerability there without even warning the customers).
It's actually maybe already possible to consider it a fraud
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#68I want to know why WPA3 doesn't have a mode where a password is used for the initial connection , but then the client and AP generate a keypair and each store their half and use that for all future connections. For all future connections, the AP can validate every client, and the client can validate that it is connecting to the same AP. The AP could have an interface to 'revoke' access to any single client if necessa…
> why WPA3 doesn't have a mode where a password is used for the initial connection, but then the client and AP generate a keypair and each store their half and use that for all future connections.
Because it would regress security back to inferior bearer authentication.
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#69Personally I've essentially given up on depending on WiFi auth for anything important. For general access, segmenting various users, IOT etc for performance, monitoring and light privacy WPA-EAP and PPSKs with VLANs does some work as an initial first layer fine and in a simple reliable way that works with everything. It's a low pass filter. But for all sensitive access I use internal Wireguard now. WiFi auth gets a c…
Would love to hear more about how you provision wireguard. I have a simple VLAN setup where I can open a tunnel from my "guest/home" network to my "lab" network (ie. docker hosts, desktop PCs that I use for development, etc) and a second tunnel from the lab network to the network that can access mgmt interfaces, however it's all mostly manual (ie. sudo wg-quick up in a terminal)
Re: WPA3 Enterprise 192-bit mode at home
#70EAP-TLS is generally a great practice, as EAP-PEAP is vulnerable to MITM issues (fix proposed in https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-josefsson-pppext-eap-t... but never adopted). For the use case cited -- blocking MAC spoofing, EAP-TLS doesn't quite solve it, it mainly only solves authentication. The outer layer is not wrapped with TLS and is instead based on an ephemeral session key. Additional work is needed to s…
> For the use case cited -- blocking MAC spoofing, EAP-TLS doesn't quite solve it The idea would be to rely on the client certificate authentication and not use MAC filtering at all. For example, you could have an EAP-TLS network that's unrestricted and not let Mallory on it. Or you could use RADIUS reply attributes to put Mallory on a restricted vlan.
Right, although the article did not mention how to stop the spoofing. I started this thread to raise awareness and point out that the details around RADIUS can really matter here when not using a secure AP because some of the security assumptions about radius clients do lead to hilarious security failure