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US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

arstechnica.com

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Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#61

Post by c0pium »

jevoten wrote: post #33
c0pium wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s how patents always work; the concept cannot be patented, it’s the method which is. Garmin for instance has their own (patented) method which works differently from the infringing Apple implementation.

That's how they should work. Unfortunately, concept patents get granted all the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Click https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/12/loading-screen-game-pa...

Clicking once and having a thing show up at your house is not a concept, it’s a process. There are lots of ways to have a streamlined payment experience which do not violate this patent.

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#62

Post by dang »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

Live by the patent, die by the patent. No sympathy deserved or earned.

OK, but please don't post generic flamewar comments to HN. This kind of thing leads to repetitive threads that have happened many times before, which is not the curious conversation we're trying for here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#63

Post by gnicholas »

hedora wrote: post #13

Apple certainly isn’t a an innocent player here (they have shut down competitors with bogus patents), but that doesn’t mean the system isn’t completely broken. The import ban is due to them using a technology that was invented in 1935, then improved to more or less match what Apple shipped in 1970. Ironically, the inventor from 1970 opted not to patent it. The history section of this article has a good overview: http…

Why do you think that a District Court will invalidate the parents? The ITC determined they were valid, and they’re a competent specialized court that deals exclusively with this sort of case.

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#64

Post by Tiereven »

yunohn wrote: post #49
Tiereven wrote: post #32

I wonder if it is time to re-think the way patents work in an age of highly integrated devices. In this case, it seems like Apple and Masimo could have worked together to deliver a stellar product that promoted both inventor rights and benefited the public. Instead, both companies are suffering, and the public loses access to a technology. Perhaps the public should buy the Masimo watch if they appreciate the specific…

> seems like Apple and Masimo could have worked together That’s literally what Massimo wanted, before Apple bailed on the partnership and poached their employees instead…

That's the narrative I am gathering from the comments here. Is it possible to realign incentives to promote cooperation instead? I understand this kind of restructuring would generate huge turbulence and resistance from entrenched players - but if it's possible to use the patent system for collaboration instead of market exclusion, the resulting net benefit to inventors/researchers, manufacturing and the general public might be worth it.

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#65

Post by c0pium »

peyton wrote: post #60
yunohn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seems like Apple and Masimo could have worked together That’s literally what Massimo wanted, before Apple bailed on the partnership and poached their employees instead…

Where are you getting this information? The consumer business is ultimately a threat to Masimo. Did they have any intention of commercializing these patents? Why did so many employees leave?

Yes. By partnering with Apple. The employees left to go work at Apple. Which is fine, you can work wherever you want and companies are free to hire/poach whoever they want.

The issue here is not that Apple hired them or that Apple didn’t go through with the deal. The issue is that Apple didn’t innovate but instead infringed on someone else’s IP. If you want to see an example of what Apple should have done, go check out the Garmin patents around pulseox.

Edit: People like to dunk on Garmin for being slow to market, while ignoring the degree to which Garmin doesn’t just rip off patented ideas and instead actually innovates.

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#66

Post by gnicholas »

In the meantime, retailers like Best Buy can sell units that have already been imported to the US, and Apple can still sell the SE.

I wonder if Apple preemptively imported a ton of watches for resale, to give them some breathing room. I imagine the post-Christmas period is relatively slow, and they’ll likely refresh the watches in May. Would it be possible for them to stuff the resale channels with 3 months of inventory, and then just move to a new generation of watches at WWDC?

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#67

Post by Tiereven »

peyton wrote: post #60
yunohn wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seems like Apple and Masimo could have worked together That’s literally what Massimo wanted, before Apple bailed on the partnership and poached their employees instead…

Where are you getting this information? The consumer business is ultimately a threat to Masimo. Did they have any intention of commercializing these patents? Why did so many employees leave?

Their existing product line is marketed on their patent background [^1]. The questions you're asking seem to resonate with a certain skepticism I have observed repeatedly in related situations. This is why I am wondering if anyone is seriously considering alternative models. It seems someone in this audience is likely to know of such a proposal if any exists.

[^1] https://www.masimopersonalhealth.com/products/masimo-w1

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#68

Post by riley_dog »

gnicholas wrote: post #66

In the meantime, retailers like Best Buy can sell units that have already been imported to the US, and Apple can still sell the SE. I wonder if Apple preemptively imported a ton of watches for resale, to give them some breathing room. I imagine the post-Christmas period is relatively slow, and they’ll likely refresh the watches in May. Would it be possible for them to stuff the resale channels with 3 months of invent…

Why May? They were just introduced in September.

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#69

Post by nimbius »

Every time I read about This I am gobsmacked by just how big a cavalier blunder this is for apple.

Who on gods earth at Cupertino thought the pittance you could save from sherlocking would somehow be more than the revenue from a new iPhone in 2023?

Now you've either got to pay the license or buy the damn company. And you STILL had to admit to wrongdoing in front of the ITC and the world. Any acquisition you seek from now on is going to be a pretty cold reception if anyone cares at all to entertain it.

I wager masimo will license this technology out to every competitor apple has until cooks pushing daisies and then open source it out of spite...or at least thats what I'd do ;)

Re: US ban on some Apple Watch sales now in effect

#70

Post by gnicholas »

riley_dog wrote: post #68
gnicholas wrote: post #66

In the meantime, retailers like Best Buy can sell units that have already been imported to the US, and Apple can still sell the SE. I wonder if Apple preemptively imported a ton of watches for resale, to give them some breathing room. I imagine the post-Christmas period is relatively slow, and they’ll likely refresh the watches in May. Would it be possible for them to stuff the resale channels with 3 months of invent…

Why May? They were just introduced in September.

I was thinking that was the soonest event at which they regularly announce new products. They probably weren’t intending to revamp for a year, but under the circumstances they’ll probably update sooner (or settle).
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