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Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

cnn.com

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Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#61

Post by wmeredith »

jorvi wrote: post #53
layer8 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When has Apple ever sued over patent infringement? Apple vs. HTC: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litigation_involving_Apple_Inc... Normally, the threat implied by a patent moat is sufficient, so it doesn’t come to a lawsuit.

It was exquisite to see Apple complain for several generations that everyone was copying them, then turn around and pretty much clone the HTC M7. Then they had the gall to sue HTC. Glad the judge ended up forcing their hand, a rare case where might didn’t make right.

What product of theirs is a clone of the HTC M7? I'm looking at the device, and I don't get it.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#62

Post by ramshanker »

I have been doing the thought experiment about fair pricing of patents. My current values are like:

A patent holder declares the value he is willing to license the patent to any entity. Inventor can consider their EXPANSES while declaring the value, but not the approach “my idea cost me 0$ but is worth a billion “. Society should be willing to compensate for monetary investment, not just imagination. You deposit 1% of the declared value annually to maintain the patent. This one to discourage arbitrary value declaration. Any company wishing to license, pays you the declared amount. If 10 companies pay you declared value, I.e You have earned 10x return on your actual expense of innovation, patent becomes public domain. Society doesn’t need per product patent pricing sh*.

The numbers , 1% and 10x can always be debated. Overall seems good enough to encourage innovation and discourage trolling.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#64

Post by sandworm101 »

borgunit2 wrote: post #7
sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Absolutely no sympathy. Those who live by the patent shall die by the patent.

I’m holding judgement until the case is investigated further. It’s my understanding that so far everyone has basically said, “there’s enough evidence to proceed in court.” Patent reform is something that is sorely needed (and more funding for the USPTO). Take for example this patent on an anti gravity device: https://www.nature.com/articles/438139a#:~:text=The%20US%20p... . And then there’s the patent troll problem.…

>> As a small shop, I am particularly afraid of trolls shutting us down overnight with basically no recourse.

I be more scared of non-trolls who own giant catalogues of patents. The giant companies will shut you down just as fast as any "troll". Try to invent any device with a touchscreen and an internet connection. It won't be trolls knocking on your door, but lawyers from Samsung, Apple and Microsoft.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#65

Post by scarface_74 »

rogerkirkness wrote: post #5
fragmede wrote: post #4

I trust Apple's commitment to privacy as much as I do Google's, but when they both remove a product over a stupid patent rather than pay the patent holder (Sonos' sued Google with their multiroom audio patent), we can see that it's possible for corporations to hold principled views about things.

Google doesn't do business in China because they won't agree to the privacy violating terms of doing so, that is at least a $1T principle if you compare it to the amount of hardware and services that Apple sells there.

Google won’t do business in China because it is blocked in China.

But they still make hardware there like everyone else

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#66

Post by beacon294 »

JulianWasTaken wrote: post #30
dlenski wrote: post #9

BS patents are bad, and patents lasting 20+ years are bad, but if someone's gonna get maimed by them… I can hardly think of a more deserving victim than Apple.

Are you intimating Apple has been litigious with patents? Or just saying you have no sympathy for companies with lots of money? (This isn't a leading question, I have no informed opinion about Apple specifically.)

Two words: "rounded corners"

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#67

Post by jorvi »

wmeredith wrote: post #61
jorvi wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was exquisite to see Apple complain for several generations that everyone was copying them, then turn around and pretty much clone the HTC M7. Then they had the gall to sue HTC. Glad the judge ended up forcing their hand, a rare case where might didn’t make right.

What product of theirs is a clone of the HTC M7? I'm looking at the device, and I don't get it.

iPhone 6. The HTC A9 is another one, but that was much less high profile as it isn’t a flagship device.

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#68

Post by devsda »

bdowling wrote: post #37
hasty_pudding wrote: post #12

Why doesn't Apple enter into a deal with Masimo for a small percentage of the watch? Unless I missed it, the news article didn't go into more detail on why a deal couldn't be made.

That would be the obvious solution, but it’s not surprising they couldn’t agree on a price when they operate in very different industries. Masimo makes medical devices, ones whose prices are probably both high and skewed by insurance. Apple is a consumer devices company and may not be able to justify a high royalty price and still meet certain consumer price points. Another possibility is that Apple’s watches may be…

> Apple is a consumer devices company and may not be able to justify a high royalty price and still meet certain consumer price points.

Do we know the total BOM cost plus the amortized cost of development & other expenses for an Apple watch ?

While I don't think one patent holder should get a major share of the available margins, I find it hard to believe that margins for Apple on smart watches are anywhere close to "thin".

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#69

Post by Y_Y »

jmyeet wrote: post #28
sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Absolutely no sympathy. Those who live by the patent shall die by the patent.

When has Apple ever sued over patent infringement? There was the Samsung case [1] but that was a design issue. Apple, Google, Meta and other big tech companies have used patents defensively not offensively . That is, as mutually-assured destruction. The real villains in this story are the patent holding companies that sue in East Texas to get in front of one judge that, at a time, heard a quarter of all US patent cas…

Thisnis the internet, no need to post half remembered fragments. I'm sure the judge you're referring to is the notorious Rodney Gilstrap.

Plenty of good info on that operation, e.g. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/06/east-texas-judge...

Re: Apple is officially no longer selling the newest Apple Watch in America

#70

Post by vvanders »

jmyeet wrote: post #28
sandworm101 wrote: post #3

Absolutely no sympathy. Those who live by the patent shall die by the patent.

When has Apple ever sued over patent infringement? There was the Samsung case [1] but that was a design issue. Apple, Google, Meta and other big tech companies have used patents defensively not offensively . That is, as mutually-assured destruction. The real villains in this story are the patent holding companies that sue in East Texas to get in front of one judge that, at a time, heard a quarter of all US patent cas…

https://www.phonearena.com/news/HTC-had-shipped-blocked-phon...

Happened back in '11 when they were going after Android OEMs, despite the fact that the actual devices weren't infringing they still tried to get them blocked.

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