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US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

theguardian.com

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Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#61

Post by legitster »

fatbird wrote: post #55
thsksbd wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up on electric, and Im looking to switch from my current gas to induction. Mostly for safety reasons - I don't like open flames. So Im about as biased against gas as possible. Electric heating elements suck. They take an appreciable time to warm up, they stay warm long after forcing the cook to adjust accordingly. Also, only gas can really work with woks, but I don't use woks so that's a non issue. If the powe…

We replaced our electric with induction instead of gas, which my wife much prefers to cook on. One of my best arguments against gas was that every gas stovetop available has a heavy iron framework over the flame to hold pots, and it's a pain to clean under them.

I really like the heavy grates though. Some of my recipes require me to really go to town on heavy cast iron pots and pans. Busting a glass top is a real bummer. In such cases it's almost better to have the old-school electric burners (there's a reason apartments almost never have a "nice" glass range).

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#62

Post by legitster »

NewJazz wrote: post #26
vsskanth wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Just plain electric.

OK. That is indeed a sucky experience. The only thing induction doesn't do well is cooking with things like woks, where you have a curved surface that you want to heat evenly.

Or any large pot or pan. Gas heat distributes heat nicely across the bottom and sides of any size pot you put on it. Even rectangular pans and dishes.

Even an old school electric is better in this regard than an induction top. If you lay a big cast iron pan across your induction top (which you wouldn't want to to begin with) it will literally only heat up the molecules directly above your biggest burner.

So while an induction is superior in 80% of cases, you still ultimately get more versatility out of gas.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#63

Post by wharvle »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #4
vsskanth wrote: post #2

This is surprising because gas cooking is considered a "premium" feature here in NC, and people look for it during their house search. Personally, it is a better cooking experience than electric. Induction might be the best, but it's still expensive.

I would literally buy propane camping stove and a big bottle of propane rather than use an electrical stove.

Resistive electric? I’m with you, I truly would just go for my own propane supply before going back to that crap. But you can get propane conversion kits for natural gas ranges, no need to get the camping stove.

I haven’t had a chance to try electric induction yet. I don’t know anyone who has one.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#64

Post by travisb »

LUmBULtERA wrote: post #49
andrewxdiamond wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For water heating specifically, get an electric kettle. They are optimized for boiling water, much faster than gas OR induction on a stove.

If a country with 220/240v electric kettles, I can believe it... but in the US the electric kettle is probably 110/120V at 12-15 amps, then I would think an induction stove kettle could be faster, no?

For the volumes often boiled in kettles, often 0.5l to 1.0l, only if you use a massively oversized pot. But then you need to account of the extra evaporation and greater cookware mass which hurts the induction stove.

Induction power is still limited by pot diameter and common cookware is very heavy for water boiling because other types of cooking need more even heat and higher temperatures.

I actually raced a 120v kettle versus and high-end induction stove to boil 1l and it was very close.

Electric kettles are very well optimized for speed and efficiency.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#65

Post by bob1029 »

legitster wrote: post #40
jeffbee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just a policy choice. There's no law of physics that makes an electric heat pump cost more.

An electric heat pump by nature has a lot more parts. A gas furnace is just a few sensors, a burner, a fan, and a box to do it in.

> a fan

I think you might be underestimating the # of components in a modern furnace.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#66

Post by andrewxdiamond »

LUmBULtERA wrote: post #49
andrewxdiamond wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For water heating specifically, get an electric kettle. They are optimized for boiling water, much faster than gas OR induction on a stove.

If a country with 220/240v electric kettles, I can believe it... but in the US the electric kettle is probably 110/120V at 12-15 amps, then I would think an induction stove kettle could be faster, no?

Your induction cooktop isn’t going to dump all of its power into a single ‘burner’, and the pot you use on an induction stove will have significantly more thermal mass than your average kettle. The heating element in an electric kettle will be directly heating the water. A induction cooktop will heat the pot first, then the pot heats the water. Lots more thermal mass to heat up.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#67

Post by ska »

wharvle wrote: post #59
ska wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree induction is pretty great, although it limits cookware and still doesn't work for all techniques (blowtorch doesn't replace everything). And you are right that the 110V are underpowered. The ones I've used are less granular than gas (which is essentially continuous) and latency is similar. From what I've seen europe is still way ahead on induction offerings, but it seems to be getting better. I'd probably lean…

Induction’s still pricey, too. The low end of gas ranges is low-priced, indeed. And ranges (can) last a long time, so old-school electric is gonna be the “normal” electric range for many years yet, I expect. Just checked Lowes. Cheapest induction range, $999. Four gas options are $499 or lower, four resistive electrics $499 or lower.

True. Even Ikea's cheapest seems to be about 800.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#68

Post by legitster »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #37
abfan1127 wrote: post #7

I won't speak to cooking. But, gas central air heaters are much cheaper to operate than heat pumps in Phoenix, AZ. I wish it wasn't so environmentally speaking. But from a cost point of view, its better to use natural gas than electricity.

I can see heat pumps costing more than natural gas furnaces in cold regions, but I would not have expected it in Phoenix. Are electricity prices super high or gas prices super low?

> gas prices super low

EXTREMELY low. I was shocked in the PNW when we switched to a house with natural gas appliances how much we saved.

In some cases they are not even superior appliances but you save so much money.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#69

Post by Kirby64 »

thsksbd wrote: post #33
bwb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That might be a bit of propaganda from the gas industry over the last 50 years. I heard similar but when i dug into it appeared to be bunk… i cook on electric now and love it.

I grew up on electric, and Im looking to switch from my current gas to induction. Mostly for safety reasons - I don't like open flames. So Im about as biased against gas as possible. Electric heating elements suck. They take an appreciable time to warm up, they stay warm long after forcing the cook to adjust accordingly. Also, only gas can really work with woks, but I don't use woks so that's a non issue. If the powe…

Glass topped electric (induction or not) beats gas in cleaning every time imo. You take a razor blade and some scrubbing solution and you can actually clean it fully. Gas stovetops have nooks and crannies that get gross and are much more difficult to fully clean. I dread cleaning my gas stovetop.

Re: US utility firms offer builders cash/trips to fit new homes with gas appliances

#70

Post by Kirby64 »

legitster wrote: post #61
fatbird wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We replaced our electric with induction instead of gas, which my wife much prefers to cook on. One of my best arguments against gas was that every gas stovetop available has a heavy iron framework over the flame to hold pots, and it's a pain to clean under them.

I really like the heavy grates though. Some of my recipes require me to really go to town on heavy cast iron pots and pans. Busting a glass top is a real bummer. In such cases it's almost better to have the old-school electric burners (there's a reason apartments almost never have a "nice" glass range).

Are you… dropping cast iron cookware on the stove? I don’t know any recipe that would require some movement that would damage a glass cooktop. Cast iron cookware seems to scratch glass tops over time, but that doesn’t seem to crack or damage them (unless you drop something on it, of course).
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