When I worked in sewer inspection I heard a lot about the rate of degradation of in-ground infrastructure. One thing that was touted a lot was that the math doesn't work out at present; we can't replace infrastructure as fast as it degrades in net. I was curious if the 10 years since I've been NAASCO certified if things have changed or if non-water/sewer infrastructure was potentially different. Turns out, costs average out in the long term between above and in-ground infrastructure: https://www.roads.maryland.gov/opr_research/md-03-sp208b4c-c...
An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
61–70 of 196 posts
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Delivery bots using pedestrian sidewalks are 1) limited to places that have pedestrian sidewalks, 2) are really, really slow, and 3) can very easily be stolen. If we’re talking suburbs, they are likely off the table. Now, armored aerial delivery drones… dissuading dronejacking with robust self-defense/self-destruction capabilities, adequately advertised to avoid potential lawsuits… that’s the future we’re waiting for…
If there are no sidewalks - building them will be cheaper and will benefit community more than building a tunnel. Robots in the tunnel are not fast either. Looks like a fun startup to burn some VC money.
Pouring squares of concrete might be less expensive than running an 18 inch unpressurized pipe through some terrain but building safe, long lasting, ADA compliant sidewalks is a far more complex endeavor than dumping some concrete on the ground. Do you stand by your statement that it's cheaper because you have in-depth knowledge of the costs involved or are you engaging in motivated guessing to advocate for a desired outcome?
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's because the old transit lines were redone as bike paths.
I can think of two rails-to-trails projects in my area. The first is the old Georgetown Spur, running from about the Silver Spring Metro station to the old C&O Canal towpath. That right of way was never used for passenger trains, it served two trains per week taking coal to a power plant in Georgetown. It was unprofitable for the railroad which gladly stopped the service as soon as the power plant got permission for…
The W&OD goes much of the way through Loudoun county and ends in Purcellville.
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#64I wonder how long it’s going to take to break even. It’s pretty expensive to install piping. Even if you use no-dig tech.
Also, if they go out of business the infrastructure built isn’t going to be taken away.
The problem being that a huge part of rising construction cost in infrastructure is poor documentation of current infrastructure. You have a lot of stops in production when you encounter unknown piping.
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
> building them will be cheaper and will benefit community more than building a tunnel If you think sidewalks would benefit an entirely car-based community, I’d wonder if you’ve ever been to suburbs. You’re suggesting building (and maintaining indefinitely) the length of sidewalks, along with road crossing markings, signs, street lights, and all the rest that walkability comes with, to cover a sprawling area where, c…
Sidewalk fall into disrepair in few months? Here in my city sidewalks are keeping well intact for more than 10 years. Is theft a huge problem? Electric scooters are everywhere in the streets. Underground tunnel which is capable to fit furniture and cars will be extremely expensive. The whole idea for last mile delivery via tunnel is not economically viable.
A last mile solution that accommodates all possible use cases would indeed be expensive. One that handles 50% of deliveries? That seems useful. Would 50% be economically viable? What about 10% or 90%? Hard to know and probably will depend on many factors including the local geography. But even if it can't handle 100% of deliveries, perhaps it will be viable for a significant percentage, even if in just limited situations like a suburb with a sweet spot between the cost of adding subterranean pipes and high enough population density to provide high enough volume to justify the capital investment. Very few solutions are able to work for all use cases in all environments. That doesn't mean they can't be useful.
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#66[flagged]
How is this related to the transit in any way? It's solving for speed of delivery, not congestion...
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's the trouble in King County. Creating new right-of-way is terribly expensive and destructive. The old rail system used to provide mass transit, and it ran through the cities in the county. The County also goes to great lengths to spend as much money as possible. When digging a new tunnel, the excavated material was used to stuff the old tunnel, meaning there was no increase in capacity. In another instance, onc…
Old unused railways being repurposed as bike paths actually can be good for general mobility, traffic safety, etc. In the case you are describing I'd still say it is more of a symptom of an underlying issue to be honest. One you yourself do actually describe. > The County also goes to great lengths to spend as much money as possible. When digging a new tunnel, the excavated material was used to stuff the old tunnel,…
I walk on the bike paths now and then. There isn't remotely the traffic on them like the parallel road. And that's in good weather. 6 months of the year, when it's wet and chilly, it's empty.
While transit would be carrying lots more people year round.
Then there's the rail line that used to run from Renton to Bothell, paralleling 405 which is gridlocked every day. A couple of people are on the bike path now and then, when the weather is good.
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Old unused railways being repurposed as bike paths actually can be good for general mobility, traffic safety, etc. In the case you are describing I'd still say it is more of a symptom of an underlying issue to be honest. One you yourself do actually describe. > The County also goes to great lengths to spend as much money as possible. When digging a new tunnel, the excavated material was used to stuff the old tunnel,…
It's not useful biking infrastructure, because of the way that the Cross-Kirkland Corridor is arranged. You can't really get to work, or to the store, or to school with it. Unless you work at Google, it's only really useful as a recreational route. The purpose of redeveloping the rail line into a biking path wasn't to improve biking infrastructure, or reduce Kirkland's dependency on cars. It was to hamstring any mass…
It doesn't go directly to Bellevue Mall, but the line runs close enough to it that the mall is within easy walking distance, along with the rest of downtown.
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's because the old transit lines were redone as bike paths.
That's NIMBY neighbourhoods firing a pre-emptive salvo, to prevent those lines, and the easements around them from being re-developed into new transit lines. Presumably to keep the poors and undesirables and people without cars out of their beautiful town. /waves in the general direction of Kirkland, WA.
The Burke-Gilman trail is also representative of the madness of King County transit.
Re: An underground delivery train comes to the Atlanta suburbs
#70They cite pneumatic tubes as an inspiration. Why not straight up build pneumatic tubes of their own?