Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

tuta.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 192 posts

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#61

Post by stronglikedan »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #51
solardev wrote: post #18

"Today, corrupt politicians put on another dog and pony show while continuing business as usual. Is our democracy secretly a farce? Details at 11."

No. We cannot have our cake and eat it too. We cannot have unprotected, open borders for decades, and then expect to identify and track foreign internal threats AND not provide the USGOV the means to detect and surveil. We cannot assume that because we're an HN regular who thinks power corrupts (it certainly does) the cost of that corruption is greater than what we pay if/when a foreign adversary acts against the US.…

No. We can. Protect the citizens' rights. Detect and surveil non-citizens as a result of open borders all they want, but don't trample on the rights of the citizens in the name of safety.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#63

Post by [deleted] »

ibejoeb wrote: post #44
dmix wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of written law in the US gov has grown exponentially since the 1970s. https://www.everycrsreport.com/files/20190903_R43056_5083d3b... The only time it slowed has been during brief gov shutdowns. As this report explains this includes plenty of non rules and administrative stuff and does count repeals but anyone who has followed Congress knows that the bulk of those bills is new spending and new rules impose…

It's a real shame. Legislating isn't a full-time job naturally, but we've made it so by turning it into one of the most lucrative careers. We judge congress perversely by output of new laws.

[deleted]

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#64

Post by ibejoeb »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #54
0ckpuppet wrote: post #5

you mean spying on American citizens without a warrant?

That is NOT what 702 provides. 702 prohibits US citizens from being targeted (see: https://www.dni.gov/files/icotr/Section702-Basics-Infographi... )

In practice, it provides for parallel construction in order to conduct domestic surveillance of US citizens by bringing a secret action against a foreign correspondent.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#65

Post by mikeyouse »

ibejoeb wrote: post #48
ethanbond wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the government be shrinking when our population and the complexity of our society + economy is growing?

I was expecting to find that federal employment has grown faster than the US population, but it looks like that's not the case. Since 2000, the federal workforce seems to have grown about 14%, while the overall population increased by about 20%.

If you go back further it’s even more stark - there are 5% fewer Federal employees than there were when Clinton took office, overall population is up 30% and real GDP is up like 120%:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1cCLR

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#66

Post by vGPU »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #51
solardev wrote: post #18

"Today, corrupt politicians put on another dog and pony show while continuing business as usual. Is our democracy secretly a farce? Details at 11."

No. We cannot have our cake and eat it too. We cannot have unprotected, open borders for decades, and then expect to identify and track foreign internal threats AND not provide the USGOV the means to detect and surveil. We cannot assume that because we're an HN regular who thinks power corrupts (it certainly does) the cost of that corruption is greater than what we pay if/when a foreign adversary acts against the US.…

Ok, so let’s deport everyone who came in through said unprotected open borders. That’s literally why borders exist. To keep foreign threats… foreign.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#67

Post by vGPU »

Covzire wrote: post #40
solardev wrote: post #18

"Today, corrupt politicians put on another dog and pony show while continuing business as usual. Is our democracy secretly a farce? Details at 11."

It's "our" democracy, not our democracy it seems.

The difference between a representative and a true democracy.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#68

Post by vGPU »

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #42
laweijfmvo wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what are some recent examples of governments giving up power?

YIMBY reforms Weed legalization (NYS doesn't count) Gun laws

Weed legalization is just trading of one authority for another. The government expects to be able to exercise their revenue collection authority over it in exchange for their authority to ban it.

Re: Today Is One of the Biggest Surveillance Votes. Will the FBI Stop Spying?

#69

Post by soco »

logicchains wrote: post #43
todd-davies wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great example. Another one is state governments joining a union or federal system, such as US states joining the Union or European states joining the EU, and becoming bound by federal/EU law.

>such as US states joining the Union This doesn't really count as freely joining, since half of them were forced to join by a bloody war.

Let's not forget that other half joined freely a different union. So the argument doesn't change at all.
Post reply on HN