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Just Your Handyman

plough.com

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Re: Just Your Handyman

#61

Post by leipert »

notyofriend wrote: post #54
georgeoliver wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't seem to reduce the supply of labor in Canada, since the author of the article is self-taught. However it's likely to increase the overall level of training, which is good for someone who needs their broken trim board replaced.

No it’s not good. The lower the barrier to every the better. More ability to choose the level of quality work you desire. A handyman for bill gates is going to be a complete different class than one for the roach motel but it’s still good if the roach motel can get one.

Mhm. Here in Germany plumber, electrician, etc. are all “protected” jobs. You can’t call yourself a plumber or electrician if you haven’t learned the proper trade. I’d argue it’s good for safety, standards and liability.

Now when it comes to stuff like building a kitchen, you could go with proper carpenters or furniture folks or a handyman. It’s good to have those different categories and know what you would be getting.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#62

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

Great article. This guy sounds like a pretty neat dude ("a part-time autodidact handyman").

Sadly, this guy does not sound like any handyman that I've known, but then, I have not known any handymen with a theology degree.

But I have certainly known a number of fairly incongruous folks, in unusual vocations, so I'm not surprised.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#63

Post by bequanna »

leipert wrote: post #61
notyofriend wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s not good. The lower the barrier to every the better. More ability to choose the level of quality work you desire. A handyman for bill gates is going to be a complete different class than one for the roach motel but it’s still good if the roach motel can get one.

Mhm. Here in Germany plumber, electrician, etc. are all “protected” jobs. You can’t call yourself a plumber or electrician if you haven’t learned the proper trade. I’d argue it’s good for safety, standards and liability. Now when it comes to stuff like building a kitchen, you could go with proper carpenters or furniture folks or a handyman. It’s good to have those different categories and know what you would be getti…

It's essentially the same in the US.

If there is a large risk when work is low quality, there is regulation. The more possible danger, the more regulation. This is OK.

But an argument for regulation that is just some hand waving and repeating "standards" is not a legitimate position. It is an attempt to build some little bureaucratic empire which will enrich a group via regulatory capture.

The government wins as they now have more employees and more power and the people already in the trade win. Everyone else loses.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#64

Post by JoBrad »

leipert wrote: post #61
notyofriend wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it’s not good. The lower the barrier to every the better. More ability to choose the level of quality work you desire. A handyman for bill gates is going to be a complete different class than one for the roach motel but it’s still good if the roach motel can get one.

Mhm. Here in Germany plumber, electrician, etc. are all “protected” jobs. You can’t call yourself a plumber or electrician if you haven’t learned the proper trade. I’d argue it’s good for safety, standards and liability. Now when it comes to stuff like building a kitchen, you could go with proper carpenters or furniture folks or a handyman. It’s good to have those different categories and know what you would be getti…

That’s sort of true in the US, as well. A plumber or electrician is licensed, but handymen aren’t, as far as I know.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#65

Post by eternityforest »

cwalv wrote: post #30
spenczar5 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are good distinctions. I'm a 13-year software engineer, and a 4-year part time finish carpenter. An important distinction that comes up for me a lot is that it's much harder to fix mistakes with physical stuff. I can rapidly iterate on software, try stuff, see what works, play with a concept. But if I do that with wood and nails, I'm going to be in for trouble. Each idea costs material, and if it's a repair, th…

IMO this is the defining characteristic of software development. It's why I love it, and why the processes that support doing it well are different from other types of projects. I also think other disciplines will inevitably move more in this direction. Once things can be accurately modeled and tested with computers, the iteration cycle becomes similar. You do have to eventually build the "machine", but I think that…

If you do 3D printing, make furniture, or anything like that, you can sometimes carry over ideas from programming.

Once you've built something yourself, you start seeing problems like "Oh, this assembly has multiple parts that all need to be done in place, how can I change it so I can build it all in the shop and just screw it in".

But with software, we try as hard as we can to make it impossible to mess up.

With physical goods, we seem to prefer things that can be messed up, things that only look good with expensive materials, etc. Things that by their existence, demonstrate the skill of the maker, and the wealth of the buyer.

We don't really know what the limits of pocket screws joinery and cardboard tabletops are, because... nobody is trying to make something out of cardboard that lasts a century, they just assume it will be thrown away.

With software, we start with the assumption that no programmer is up to the challenge, nobody will ever understand a large system, no user will ever be competent, etc, and figure out how to make amazing things anyway.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#66

Post by dharmab »

neverartful wrote: post #19
karaterobot wrote: post #15

Neat article. If you squint, I don't think there is a ton of difference between what most handymen do and what most software engineers do: they both have some generalizable skills, and when they get asked to do something they say 'yes' and then figure out how to do it. I don't think the challenge level of most day-to-day software tasks is any harder than the "where'd that water stain come from" puzzle he described in…

I mostly agree with you. I've been a full-time software engineer for the past 28 years and a part-time handyman for the past 5 months. One of the biggest differences that you don't mention is the use of your body. Software engineering is purely intellectual -- often to the detriment of your body (or mine, anyways) since it's often the case where I sit at the keyboard for hours on end, day after day. As a handyman, yo…

> Example of humbling work - opening up p-traps under sinks and having some of the smelly, dirty water splash on you.

This cannot be understated. You can tell if a person has never cleaned a toilet in their life- you can hear it in their voice.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#67

Post by vl »

everdrive wrote: post #8

> My kids get regular doses of “No limits!” and “You can be whatever you want!” in school, and I resent it because it simply isn’t true. You cannot actually be whatever you want. That’s harmful, sentimental garbage. Fact is, the real world is chock full of limits. I've long observed that modern culture and media seem to be really stuck on this idea that kids everywhere are having their dreams held back by evil adults…

Effectively, we reached post-scarcity society. As such, current zeitgeist changed from “we all have to work to collectively survive” to “only few need to work and are rewarded for it and everyone else can just chill out and have their basic needs met”.

Our collective approach to education reflects this new economic situation.

It’s even harder to give any advice to children now, with AI massively disrupting everything in few short years.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#68

Post by from-nibly »

chrisweekly wrote: post #55
karaterobot wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the biggest differences that you don't mention is the use of your body. Oh, for sure. I was a dev for many years, then switched to product design. What I left out of my first comment was that my older brother is a maintenance guy for a hospital—basically a handyman with an office in the basement. Growing up, it was clear that he was at least as smart as me, but at a certain point he went one direction and I…

"... smart for being programmers just because we get paid too much for it" I wish people would stop propagating this idea. The opposite is true.

I really don't think of myself as some sort of genius. It's not productive to feel that way. I want to believe that software is something everyone can do. But I just haven't observed that in real life.

I think it's folly to compare the intelligence of a tradesman to a software developer (or anyone for that matter). But there is SOMETHING, that not everyone has (or maybe just doesn't want to obtain), that's required to do software development at any kind of capacity.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#69

Post by dajtxx »

from-nibly wrote: post #68
chrisweekly wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... smart for being programmers just because we get paid too much for it" I wish people would stop propagating this idea. The opposite is true.

I really don't think of myself as some sort of genius. It's not productive to feel that way. I want to believe that software is something everyone can do. But I just haven't observed that in real life. I think it's folly to compare the intelligence of a tradesman to a software developer (or anyone for that matter). But there is SOMETHING, that not everyone has (or maybe just doesn't want to obtain), that's required t…

I don't think you need to be particularly smart to be an avg software developer; the older I get the more I realise how average I am. When I started work as a teenager I used to think I was a brilliant programmer - hah, no way!

But I do think you need an interest in the practice and a certain mindset, just like any other job. I do it because I quite enjoy writing certain types of software, which I often don't get to write.

I've never been paid all that much for it, never more than about 90K US, and not even that for very long. I think all those FAANG salaries are obscene and there's no way even a small fraction of the people making that money are worth it, or earning it, especially with how they're not making society any better.

It's interesting talking to tradespeople and learning about what they do. There's a lot of math involved in some trades like machining and electricians where I live learn a lot of it too while training. A good tradesperson has to be every bit as clever as your normal software developer.

My old man was a diesel mechanic, then a fitter and turner and finally did a mech eng certificate at night school and became a draftsman. What he learned was way more difficult than anything I ever had to learn.

Re: Just Your Handyman

#70

Post by dajtxx »

That was not the article I was expecting! Really enjoyed it.

I think the guy is underselling himself. He's running his own successful business, something I cannot imagine doing. He's hitting new (even if similar) problems every day with real world settings and real world consequences, and helping people. Sounds pretty impressive to me. When it comes to DIY I don't stretch beyond fixing tap washers or replacing power switches with obvious problems for fear of causing expensive damage.

The fact he can do it while battling on going mental health hassles is impressive too.

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