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Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

timeuse.barcelona

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Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#61

Post by vikingerik »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #10
datadrivenangel wrote: post #2

"After agreement of a common date within the EU, we recommend doing the transition in 1 to 2 steps, depending on the member state: Step 1: All EU countries abolish the clock change to DST in spring and remain on the clock time they use in winter. For those countries whose recommended time zone is their current standard time, no further steps need to be taken. Step 2: Those countries whose recommended time zone is not…

I've never seen anyone propose moving in the opposite direction of summer time before. That seems needlessly awkward to me.

The point is to correct those locales that have gone way too far in the direction of summer time. Spain in particular is almost 3 hours off of solar time.

There's a societal pull in the direction of earlier time, even aside from anything about sunlight. Nobody wants to be "late" compared to their economic neighbors so they gravitate towards earlier time zones. This is correcting for that.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#62

Post by ghusto »

AndyMcConachie wrote: post #6

This actually kinda sucks. I like not changing clocks. But I'm not happy about moving the timezones around. I'm in The Netherlands and after this Germany will be in a different time zone than me. That's not cool.

I'm in the Netherlands too, and I can't understand this sentiment. You're the second commenter to say this. Explain?

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#63

Post by closewith »

NeoTar wrote: post #60

Putting Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland (AKA Ireland) on different timezones strikes me as political suicide for anyone proposing it. But otherwise I am warm to the proposal. Some tweaks would make it more practical/politically acceptable (keep Portugal and Ireland on the Western Time Zone, don't split up Greece from the islands).

Yes, that's completely absurd. Ireland is more likely to leave the EU than accept timezone partition.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#64

Post by raverbashing »

highmastdon wrote: post #32

We (Europe) shouldn't fragment time zones that much. We (NL) should stay on permanent summer time. Reasons - criminality is lower when there's longer light - earlier darkness leads to more accidents. It's better to have longer darkness after the masses are RESTED (in the morning), opposed to when they're TIRED (in the evening) - longer day-time for office workers, is more productive - shorter time of year that has lo…

"permanent summer time" yes, and have you checked how does that look like in winter, right?

It would mean a sunrise at 9h30 (given today's sunset/sunrise times)

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#65

Post by pmontra »

From the Who We Are page of the site

> The Time Use Initiative (TUI) is the main non-profit organisation promoting the right to time all over the world. Its main objective is to encourage public discussion on how we collectively organise our time, seen as a way to improve citizen’s well-being through innovative time policies.

So this is not a proposal from an EU department, but it's a proposal to the EU. For sure they "encourage public discussion" as the comments here on HN demonstrate.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#66

Post by computerfriend »

antupis wrote: post #54
theodric wrote: post #9

After placing all of Europe on permanent winter time, going by the image provided, this proposal seeks to split Ireland's time zone from the UK's and place it a further hour earlier, thereby ensuring that the sun will begin setting at 2:30PM, and it will be pitch black out at 3:30PM in the winter, all in the name of achieving "permanent time zones as close as possible to solar time (natural time) in Europe." Well don…

Studies show that you want those daylight hours to morning less depressions and sleeping problems.

This is extremely at odds with what I actually want: longer evenings.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#67

Post by janice1999 »

This is absurd and absolutely detached from reality. Not one person on the island of Ireland is going to accept either a timezone border between Ireland and Northern Ireland or between Northern Ireland and Britain. Unsurprisingly not one expert or group on their list is Irish or from the UK.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#68

Post by madcaptenor »

bobthepanda wrote: post #8
simbolit wrote: post #4

(1) abolishing daylight savings time is great and should have been done years ago. (2) the proposed time zones are really impractical, not necessarily in principle, but in their specific implementation. Germany-Netherlands in different time zones is strange, Dublin and Belfast in different time zones is stupid, Athens and Crete in different time zones is absurd.

I agree. National borders is quite possibly one of the worst ways to do time zones. At least in the US time zone borders were specifically chosen to run through areas of low population, so you would minimize the number of people doing, say, living in France but working in Geneva one hour ahead. Also it's kind of odd that Ireland and Portugal are in their own little time zone, when it probably makes more sense to just…

I share your opinion re: Ireland and Portugal. This is like, for example, in the US setting Maine to be in its own time zone.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#69

Post by rational_indian »

netsharc wrote: post #47
jhugo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India manages to deal with a fractional offset from UTC, as well as several other countries. It’s really not that big a deal.

That makes me wonder of the little adaptions they need, that we Minute-Zero-ians ;) don't notice... do many Indian desktops have world clocks, for example?

Regular people dont't have world clocks. Only people who need to care about this do.

Re: Proposal on implementing permanent time zones in the European Union

#70

Post by BurningFrog »

xoa wrote: post #53
datadrivenangel wrote: post #2

"After agreement of a common date within the EU, we recommend doing the transition in 1 to 2 steps, depending on the member state: Step 1: All EU countries abolish the clock change to DST in spring and remain on the clock time they use in winter. For those countries whose recommended time zone is their current standard time, no further steps need to be taken. Step 2: Those countries whose recommended time zone is not…

Well we can't, and that's having tried! The replies do a great job of illustrating why really: there's no consensus. Some want permanent standard time. Some want permanent DST. Some are fine the way it is. In a big country spanning a lot of latitude as well as longitude and tens of millions on wildly different work and sleep schedules, messy compromise making no one entirely happy is what success looks like. Basicall…

We legislate lots of things without consensus with 51-49 majorities.

People in the past had a very different time environment. I used to have 1 watch. Now I have a dozen different clocks in my apartment.

We also did not interact with other time zones nearly as much.

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