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Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

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61–70 of 123 posts

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#61
post #10

> "It seems to me that this is the end for Microsoft's mobile team. They do not fix own bugs, they do not respond to the tickets, the even do not review PRs made a year ago" That's always been the case with all of their frameworks. Even if the entire userbase is spitting fire the default position is to double down on whatever stupid thing they're doing or ignoring it. Only time I ever got anything fixed was when I wa…

Since we're talking about GUI frameworks, I wonder how Qt fares in terms of bugs and fixing them.

Well Qt on macOS is a shit show. I pretty much had to move half my stuff off Mac because two Qt based programs I work on regularly keep breaking every time they update macOS.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember a similar argument against Visual SourceSafe[0]. We had been using SS since it was done by OneTree (borged by MS). MS used an internal tool, instead. VSS did do one cool trick, which I have yet to see replicated elsewhere: You could construct "artificial workspaces," composed of elements (down to individual files) in other workspaces, so, when you checked out (it was all checkout/checkin, back then), you a…

Svn externals provide similar capabilities, though I don’t remember if an external can be an individual file. TortoiseSvn on windows made it not to painful to use. https://svnbook.red-bean.com/en/1.7/svn.advanced.externals.h...

Externals is a footgun that can cause nasty injuries. I like Svn, but I won't be using Externals again.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#63

Three decades of experience talking here: If you don't see a vendor like Microsoft using a GUI framework for at least 50% of their new applications, then you've made a terrible mistake in adopting it yourself. Microsoft uses Google's framework for their own applications: Electron. Yes, you heard me right. Microsoft, a nearly 3 trillion dollar company, uses the framework of a competitor for their own desktop applicati…

The weird thing about MS is .NET in general - it seems like since the inception of the technology they intended to bet the farm on it as the desktop development platform of choice, yet the only first-part MS app that uses it Visual Studio (and assorted tools like Expression Blend).

Which is super weird, since it was conceived as a Borland Delphi competitor (they even hired the guy who created Delphi, Anders Hjelsberg, to design C#), and there used to be tons of Delphi apps.

It never made it into their core offerings.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#64
post #57

Title should be "Developer yells at .NET MAUI team and expects to talk to the manager because their bug hasn't been fixed in two years". I hope people can see the hostile working conditions that many in open source have to experience daily. There is no possible way for a small team to scale with the thousands of issues they get and give every single one the same amount of attention. That is why it is so important for…

I think the developer is justified in his self-described rant. He has gone through other channels and engaged with the project leaders directly. He has waited years for the bugs to be addressed. Microsoft is in the wrong here for selling this as the future and not dedicating the resources necessary to fulfill that promise.

Maybe they were busy fixing other issues?

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/dotnet/announcing-dotnet-maui...

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#65
post #60

Title should be "Developer yells at .NET MAUI team and expects to talk to the manager because their bug hasn't been fixed in two years". I hope people can see the hostile working conditions that many in open source have to experience daily. There is no possible way for a small team to scale with the thousands of issues they get and give every single one the same amount of attention. That is why it is so important for…

This is not a typical open source project. The developers are all Microsoft employees who, in theory, are paid to work on MAUI

How does getting paid change things? Many big tech companies "sponsor" OSS in this way and they have project backlogs bigger than the allowed limit on GitHub. https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/9678

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh it is very much possible to scale. Just drop the agile process, give the devs agency and fix the bugs. Easely like 100x the efficiency fixing small bugs.

Dev with agency here. There is clearly an issue, but "agile" is not it. "Agile" doesn’t mean "ship unfinished products and never care for issues". In fact, it means quite the opposite: Start with as little as possible, as polished as possible and improve from there. It's actually quite nice to work with, if every role is on the same page.

I wonder where you've found that definition of "agile". The agile manifesto says that they have come to value:

1. Individuals and interactions over processes and tools

2. Working software over comprehensive documentation

3. Customer collaboration over contract negotiation

4. Responding to change over following a plan

There is no direct quality/polishness in there.

Edit: formatting

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#67
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a typical open source project. The developers are all Microsoft employees who, in theory, are paid to work on MAUI

How does getting paid change things? Many big tech companies "sponsor" OSS in this way and they have project backlogs bigger than the allowed limit on GitHub. https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/9678

Damn right getting paid changes things

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#68

Title should be "Developer yells at .NET MAUI team and expects to talk to the manager because their bug hasn't been fixed in two years". I hope people can see the hostile working conditions that many in open source have to experience daily. There is no possible way for a small team to scale with the thousands of issues they get and give every single one the same amount of attention. That is why it is so important for…

Shame can be a motivator.

Also you’re implying that MAUI does not have serious problems, which is not true the case.

It’s good to bring this to people’s attention so that others do not make the same mistake choosing MAUI as this guy.

The MAUI team should reflect as well about the reasons people need to stay away from their product.

Your “everything is fine, this guy is just overreacting” makes me think you haven’t worked much with MAUI.

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#69
post #26

Three decades of experience talking here: If you don't see a vendor like Microsoft using a GUI framework for at least 50% of their new applications, then you've made a terrible mistake in adopting it yourself. Microsoft uses Google's framework for their own applications: Electron. Yes, you heard me right. Microsoft, a nearly 3 trillion dollar company, uses the framework of a competitor for their own desktop applicati…

True. Many will dismiss this opinion but that's how it is. The only issues being actively resolved and substantial progress happening is in: CSS - New units, flex, grid, subgrid, animation, new query methods, view transitions. JS - New APIs ranging from cryptography to WebGPU, Web Assembly. If you must give an interface to an application, there's absolutely no match to what web platform can offer in terms of fidelity…

> Flutter, Qt, Swing or other immediate UI libraries

You mean retained mode UI libraries?

Re: Developers are not happy with .NET MAUI, but nobody in the team cares about it

#70

We decommissioned all our mobile apps built with Xamarin. Some of the Microsoft teams don't listen to user feedback. We use Azure DevOps, feedback from years ago for basic features still not developed. https://developercommunity.visualstudio.com/AzureDevOps

I’ve talked with people at MS that have told me Azure DevOps is no longer in active development.

You should start your migration to GitHub actions.

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