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Ansel

ansel.photos

61–70 of 167 posts

Re: Ansel

#61
post #5

> I have given 4 years of my life to the Darktable project, only to see it destroyed by clueless geeks playing code stashing on their spare time, everyone pushing his own agenda with no sense of design, in a project where nobody is responsible for anything and where we work too fast on everything at the same time. Anyone know what happened to the Darktable project? I've only used it a few times, but it seems nice for…

Darktable is still going strong. I am a pro photographer and use it. I tried Ansel but most of the useful modules are removed and personally, I really don't care much for the "right way" of doing things from an engineering perspective. Darktable works and that's why I use it.

Re: Ansel

#62
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admire his work. But as a Darktable user, I found the implementations of strong opinions frustrating because I value actual workflow above potential technical superiority. Display referred worked fine for me because the important work happens before the shutter is clicked. The skill I want to develop is fixing things in the lens not fixing them in post. Breaking changes suck. But again open source developers don’t…

I don't disagree, I spend a lot of effort thinking about things at exposure-time. I think the thing that sold me on scene-referred is that I started conciously thinking about the kind of data I was capturing. It's often the case that the display medium, or its artistic representation, has a much lower dynamic range than the sensor in the camera, and so there are a number of things you can do to get the most data poss…

For me, I have intuitions of the relationship between my printer and my screen from experience. And I run test prints and reprint if I don’t like the way it prints.

I mean since you mentioned Adams, for Adams the print was what mattered…the print is the title of the last of his three books series.

Kodak doesn’t change HC-110 every six months because doing so destroys value.

But again it’s his software. I just wish he weren’t so bored as to invent problems to cleverly solve and solutions for which he may argue.

Re: Ansel

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence my surprise that Ansel anticipated it with open arms 40 years ago.

Artists had been saying that photographs had no soul for almost 100 years.

“Nothing changes. Corruption, immorality, chaos.”

Re: Ansel

#64
Some feedback from a long-time Lightroom user:

Nikon "High-efficiency RAW" support is missing. This is IMHO the fault of Nikon and their vendor TicoRAW. If you're going to come up with a new RAW format, then it is your responsibility to commit the decoder to open-source libraries! Sure, patent and license the encoder, but if you keep the decoder closed-source and proprietary, then you're a .

The installer is an EXE instead of an MSI. Publish an MSI! Use the "wix" tool in your build pipeline, it's not that complex.

The installer and the deployed app are not digitally signed, which throws up a litany of scary warnings and errors. Other open-source developers have gone to the effort of signing their builds.

On first launch the app flashed a command-prompt window up and then disappeared.

The "Exposure" tool has an automatic setting to compensate for the camera offset. Okay... then why did I bother to offset the exposure just to have ansel undo my intent by default? Then... it layers on a default +.7 EV for like no reason...

The overall GUI is completely non-standard and bizarre. I've never seen anything even vaguely like most of the UI controls in this application anywhere else... ever. It's like someone who's never seen a GUI in their entire lives invented everything from scratch.

The non-standard UI elements like the combo boxes aren't just weird, they're buggy too: they don't work consistently with the mouse. I can see the option being highlighted, I can click it... and then it'll pick something else! They only work reliably with the keyboard. In general the "selected item highlight" appears to be off-by-one, but not consistently. It's bizarre.

Colour management is a mess. On a HDR OLED monitor, Lightroom can display wide-gamut and HDR images correctly if the desktop is set to HDR. E.g.: if toggle an image from SDR mode to HDR mode then the only difference is that highlights get brighter and some extreme colours become more saturated. Everything is correct by default and SDR tones don't "shift". In ansel, the colours look wrong and any setting I choose in the menu makes them even more incorrect.

There's a lot of talk of HDR support on the site, and the menus even "suggest" that PQ/HLG support is there... but not really. The export formats are all from the 1990s and modern HDR formats like HEIC, AV1F, JPEG XL, etc... are missing in action.

A lot of the options/alternatives seem like developers being too reluctant to get rid of old, bad code. For example, if a new superior demosaicing algorithm is added, then it's usually best to just drop the worse ones! I tried every option available, and all but one was broken, to the point of returning super-green results or just all-black. Lightroom for example just uses a really good demosaicing algorithm and doesn't burden users with a choice of a bunch of bad alternatives.

In general, the same criticisms apply to ansel that applied to Darktable: over-complicated, too many options, most of which are either wrong or useless. Internal details exposed to the end-user in the UI that should be debug traces for developers, not permanent GUI elements. Easy to inadvertently "break" the whole thing by reordering pipeline elements by dragging and dropping something accidentally.

I suspect that on top of the ~30K lines of code Aurélien Pierre deleted from Darktable 4.0, another 60K should be deleted...

Re: Ansel

#65
post #8

This is the work of a former "darktable" developer (Aurélien Pierre) who decided to fork the codebase and go it alone. He has strong opinions about the correct way to do things. I like some of the cleanup on the UI that he has done. For now, Ansel and darktable are compatible in terms of the underlying database. So you can easily switch back and forth between them. If the fork diverges significantly, it would be more…

> "Ansel is what Darktable 4.0 could have been if its developers were not so busy turning it into an usability nightmare. Ansel is a Darktable 4.0 variant where 30.000 lines of poorly-written code and half-broken features have been removed, and 11.000 lines rewritten : it runs faster, smoother, uses less power and requires less configuration. Enjoy an app focusing on getting work done and stability." Shots fired!

[deleted]

Re: Ansel

#66
post #48

If you're using nix, I was able to make a build from the darktable derivation[0] modified to use fetchgit (since he hasn't made a github Release since December) and `s/darktable/ansel/g`. src = fetchgit { url = "https://github.com/aurelienpierreeng/ansel.git"; rev = "f7669af89a71882ebad15982d698b8df7e6c6ce8"; sha256 = "sha256-FI6dKUrmtTG7DIV0MmY6XdqlUpqdt7boKuXKU6CywjA="; fetchSubmodules = true; }; [0] https://github…

Nice, would you be willing to submit a PR[1]?

[1] https://github.com/NixOS/nixpkgs/issues/269535

Re: Ansel

#67
Beautiful open-source photo editing app, and that's really saying something. A tremendous achievement. However, the lack of a macOS build shows a fundamental lack of market knowledge & project management skill that will ultimately doom this project. It always surprises me when technical acumen is combined with complete blindness to a significant potential customer demographic. I hope they wake up.

EDIT: Am a professional photographer who frequently interacts with other pros on assignments and their own art projects. We're discussing tools constantly and have no qualms between paying for commercial tools or paying in the form of dedication to ascend the learning curve of a less friendly tool. We'll figure out a tool if it's worth it.

Re: Ansel

#68
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not your fault. It has the worst UX of anything I’ve used. Be careful if you use the mousewheel anywhere, you don’t know what unexpected action it’s going to perform. Drawing vector shapes for masks is wildly frustrating too. It does have a lot of powerful modules though… and it’s free.

There's a switch in preferences to make it just scroll by default. Definitely a bad UI decision indeed.

I actually would prefer it to zoom, which it sometimes does. A couple of examples: if you're using the tone curve tool it'll change the exposure for the level under the pointer; or if you're hovering over a vector it will scale the vector when all you want to do is zoom on the vector so you can move its fiddly control handles; but then if you're hovering over one of the settings dials by accident it will move the slider left to right. Absolutely something I wouldn't expect and have not seen in any other software. The UX is mind-boggling inconsistent and unpredictable.

Re: Ansel

#69
post #67

Beautiful open-source photo editing app, and that's really saying something. A tremendous achievement. However, the lack of a macOS build shows a fundamental lack of market knowledge & project management skill that will ultimately doom this project. It always surprises me when technical acumen is combined with complete blindness to a significant potential customer demographic. I hope they wake up. EDIT: Am a professi…

[deleted]

Re: Ansel

#70
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is the "Dr. Rant" (his own words) of Darktable, so a lot of what he says is probably exaggerated. A lot of it isn't, though - Darktable does indeed lack focus and direction lately, leading to unnecessary bloat and unresolved issues. In other words, typical FOSS problems that sometimes lead to a fork.

Author has a blog post here, https://ansel.photos/en/news/darktable-dans-le-mur-au-ralent... , which exhibits some example code, for example, this: https://github.com/darktable-org/darktable/blob/darktable-4.... That's a far cry from what I'd find acceptable in any project.

Excellent links. My favorite part:

> However you put it, there is no valid reason for a software left open without touching it to turn the computer into a toaster, especially since we don’t buy Russian gas anymore.

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