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Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

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Re: Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

#61

Post by ebiester »

While I'd love to give Mr. Katz the benefit of the doubt, I also remember hearing him on a javascript podcast where he and Jeremy Ashkenas of Backbone.js fame were on, and Katz dominated the conversation. He just doesn't seem to have an understanding of the flow of conversation.

And it's great that he's really smart, but it isn't beneficial to the audience.

Re: Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

#63

Post by arkitaip »

droithomme wrote: post #54

Katz knows what he is talking about, doesn't he? This is like complaining that you were corrected by Feynman at your physics club meeting, no?

Feynman doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would have let his ego do something as obnoxious like this.

Re: Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

#64

Post by hubb »

droithomme wrote: post #54

Katz knows what he is talking about, doesn't he? This is like complaining that you were corrected by Feynman at your physics club meeting, no?

i don't know if comparing Katz to Richard Feynman is appropriate. unless the app Katz stepped in to rewrite was a model of absurdity

Re: Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

#65

Post by e40 »

grandalf wrote: post #40

At the highest levels, in academia, business, and the arts, the sort of behavior Yehuda exhibited is completely acceptable. If you respect the discipline/art/science enough, then you value truth over the ego of some lesser being. People who dislike the conflict in these kinds of interactions are also inclined to dislike conflict on the editorial page, preferring instead bland "objective" writing. The thing is, nothin…

Just because he's the best programmer in the room doesn't excuse his horrible and unacceptable behavior. He this type of behavior goes unchallenged and is allowed to flourish, then many people will lose a voice. I think that would be tragic.

Re: Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

#66

Post by davidbalbert »

kaiuhl wrote: post #46
davidbalbert wrote: post #21

This is a touchy subject. I think this kind of behavior is very counterproductive and we (programmers) seem to do it a lot. It's something that needs to be talked about and fixed. Miguel de Icaza wrote a great blog post about "well-actuallys" a year ago and it's definitely worth reading: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html That being said, it makes me uncomfortable that an article called "Why you shouldn…

I totally agree. What doesn't get mentioned in the OP is just how incorrect the presentation was. If I was a ruby newbie, I'd want someone to stand up and say why the presentation, which was surely being presented as truth, was actually incorrect. In addition, publicly berating Yehuda seems really pointless given his huge contributions to our community. Let's be nice.

I think programmers generally care too much about correctness at the expense of feelings, community, and personal relationships. Very often correcting someone is really about showing how smart you are. While I wasn't at the event in the article, it certainly seems that Yehuda could have been doing that, and he shouldn't have done it. I just don't think this is a productive way to fix the problem.

Re: Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

#67

Post by grandalf »

e40 wrote: post #65
grandalf wrote: post #40

At the highest levels, in academia, business, and the arts, the sort of behavior Yehuda exhibited is completely acceptable. If you respect the discipline/art/science enough, then you value truth over the ego of some lesser being. People who dislike the conflict in these kinds of interactions are also inclined to dislike conflict on the editorial page, preferring instead bland "objective" writing. The thing is, nothin…

Just because he's the best programmer in the room doesn't excuse his horrible and unacceptable behavior. He this type of behavior goes unchallenged and is allowed to flourish, then many people will lose a voice. I think that would be tragic.

I think the solution is for people to feel comfortable defending their approach OR admitting they were wrong, and realizing that the goal for everyone is learning, not being right.

Yehuda may have spent hours, months, or years coming up with the insights he shared, so of course he's going to feel strongly about wanting to prevent others from wasting the time the way he did.

Re: Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

#68

Post by omgsean »

davidbalbert wrote: post #21

This is a touchy subject. I think this kind of behavior is very counterproductive and we (programmers) seem to do it a lot. It's something that needs to be talked about and fixed. Miguel de Icaza wrote a great blog post about "well-actuallys" a year ago and it's definitely worth reading: http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2011/Feb-17.html That being said, it makes me uncomfortable that an article called "Why you shouldn…

Agreed, this article would have been more effective if the author didn't disclose who he was talking about, and perhaps emailed Mr. Katz privately if he had a problem with his behaviour.

Re: Why you shouldn't invite Yehuda Katz to your user group meeting

#70

Post by angelbob »

gaius wrote: post #9

Dear Ruby "community", no-one cares about your internal bickering. Much as I hate to admit it, Zed Shaw was right.

All of our internal bickering is blogged. We're the Ruby community -- everything is blogged.

That means that our internal bickering can be submitted to HN more easily. Stop upvoting it.

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